The Coheed Chronicles
Unofficial fan created podcast exploring the music & lore behind every track in Coheed & Cambria's catalog.
The Coheed Chronicles
Episode 003: Here We Are Juggernaut
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An absolute Coheed classic, "Here We Are Juggernaut". We talk about the first mission of Coheed & Cambria as depicted in the novel and musically brought to life by the track; as well as the music video, some live banter from Claudio and much more in this episode.
Oh, this is Nacho Place. No, this is Nacho Playground. It's my heart.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm supposed to react to that.
SPEAKER_02All right, everyone. Welcome to the Koheed Chronicles. I just wanted to slide this in here. This is Joel, and I actually have Zach here. We're recording this post-returning from Texas, and we decided to do a little analysis of Texas, the shows, because they actually played Here We Are Juggernaut at these shows, the song that we're talking about in this episode. And it was, I think, a surprise to me. I don't know about you, Zach. I don't really like to read the set list before I go, but did did you know they were going to play that one?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I got spoiled. I'm a spoiler junkie. I look up spoilers for set lists for movies. I'm just like, tell me everything I want to know because I want to know it, and then I'll go watch and see how it unfolds. So yeah, I knew it was coming, but I was I was very happy. I was very happy to be spoiled and very happy to hear it live, too.
SPEAKER_02It was it was uh I would call it a pleasant surprise for me anyway, and they played it well, and then in Fort Worth, the the first night we were there, they or Claudio kind of he took a poll of the audience after they were done. He's like, How many of you guys have heard that song before?
SPEAKER_01And of course the whole audience was like, Yeah, 90 90 plus percent of the audience was was like, of course I've heard Here We Are Juggernaut, the debut, not the debut, the lead single from the 2010 critically acclaimed album You're the Black Rainbow. Everyone knows that song. That's what the first song people think of when they think of Koheed and Cambria.
SPEAKER_02Well, I don't know if I'd go that far.
SPEAKER_01What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_02I I feel like I feel like if you're at a Koheed and Cambria show, like a headliner, that's a song you you know a little bit, right? Or am I crazy?
SPEAKER_01No, I think I think you're right. I think most people would know it. It is a single off the record. It's it's probably the you know most popular song off of off of this record. I love Juggernaut, as we talked about or are going to talk about. I don't know when you're slicing this in in this episode already. But yeah, I mean it's always fun to hear stuff from You're the Black Rainbow live because there's just so little of it. And obviously the drumming style is is different than what's on the record, but I think Josh adapts it really well. The band played it with great energy, the chorus is big, everyone was singing along. I I thought it was amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, especially these Koheed shows, they were headliners, they were off nights from the Shinedown tour, so that they had a a traditional hour and a half long set, and those were those were diehards, the fans there, especially in Fort Worth. There was like a thousand cap room, and and those people were feeling it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and side note about that, so I've been lucky enough to see three shows on this tour or this cycle, I should say, because the warp tour was, you know, it's it was its own set. But I saw them play with Shinedown in Madison, and it was so interesting because they're playing so many songs on these, on this leg of the tour, these headlining sets, that I'm like, shit, these are great songs they should be playing with Shinedown because Shinedown fans like hard rock music or like you know, more in like the hard rock metal style, I would think. But when I saw them, they played songs like uh The Pavilion and like Here to Mars, and it's like interesting. I uh I know you're jealous, you wanted to hear those songs. And I love those songs too.
SPEAKER_02We heard Here to Mars. Yeah, we did, but you didn't get to hear the Pavilion, so yeah, that's a song I've I've not seen live yet. And had they performed that song at our shows, they would have played a song from every record except for the Afterman records.
SPEAKER_01And the whole tour is Afterman themed, which is funny to me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're preparing you for Red Rocks.
SPEAKER_01If it's called the This Is Our War, it's got the astronaut on it, it has the Afterman symbol behind him, and yet they haven't played a single song from that tour. And for the record, I feel like people who listen to this up to this point should realize this is not me complaining. I'm amused by that. I think that's funny.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Koheed can do whatever they want. I don't judge him for it.
SPEAKER_02Well, before we get to the episode, just wanted to say Texas was awesome. I think I can speak for both of us when I say we had a great time at the shows. The crowds in Texas were really cool, people in Texas really nice, and the venues, particularly the Aztec theater, but both the venues I thought were really, really and the sets, the sets were just awesome. Really, really great coheed sets, like top tier sets in my mind.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. We you and I both agreed. After we saw the Fort Worth show, we were I think we both were like, this is like upper echelon of coheed shows. I said it was top five. Would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. And you've seen them have been using the word I've seen them a little more than you. 37 38 times?
SPEAKER_01Is it 38 now?
SPEAKER_0237. 37.
SPEAKER_01All right, you'll see 30, you'll see 40 by the end of the year, right? Or is it only 39?
SPEAKER_0239 by the end of the year.
SPEAKER_01Oh, bummer. You gotta squeeze one more in.
SPEAKER_02Hey. They're playing Reno soon, and I was I was considering it, but it's with Shinedown, and and it's it's not an ideal day for me, so I'm probably gonna miss it. But anyway, uh we just wanted to slide this into the top of the episode because we just got back from Texas, and again, they played Juggernaut, so we wanted to get a little bit of live feedback. But anyway, now on to the bulk of the episode. Here we are, juggernaut. Okay, welcome to the Koheed Chronicles. This is episode three. We are talking today about here we are, Juggernaut. For all of you who are new listeners, this podcast, the Koheed Chronicles, is breaking down Coheed and Cambria songs, track by track, the lore and the music, and we're going quote unquote in lore order. My name is Joel. My co-host and partner in this endeavor is Zach.
SPEAKER_01Hello.
SPEAKER_02Hello. And uh yeah, before we get going, just wanted to remind everyone to, you know, sort of like and subscribe and do all those things that you need to do for the podcast. That'll help us gain some traction and get people to know that we exist. Uh, tell any Koheed fans, you know, uh that this podcast is a thing, and hopefully we can get some more people listening.
SPEAKER_01But in the world of oversaturated algorithms, word of mouth is still the best way to recommend things to new people. So just just throwing that out there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Anyone who has even a remote interest in Koheed might find some value in this podcast.
SPEAKER_01Or th or they might not, but at least they give it a shot.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, let's bump the numbers for that first episode. Okay, so here we are, juggernaut. This for me personally is one of my favorite Koheed and Camriya songs. It still hits like fire for me every time I hear it, and I think it's a great single, one of their better singles, personally. And it was the first single off of the record that we're talking about, Year of the Black Rainbow. It was released as a single officially on March 9th, 2010. It was released a few days before that on Myspace, but officially the single came out on March 9th. It was co-picked, I guess, by both the band and the record label to use as the first single, which I believe is a powerful statement when they're both on board with the same song.
SPEAKER_01That's interesting. Does The Broken not count as a single? Because I swear they released that track like early 2010.
SPEAKER_02I think The Broken is not officially maybe a record label released single, even though they did make a video for it too. But like I remember this time period. I I I hope I I believe you probably do too.
SPEAKER_01Like As do I.
SPEAKER_02They're definitely pushing Juggernaut uh as like the radio song.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. And I and at the at the time they came out, uh, I loved it. I still do. It was uh just a super fun song to to like just revel in the vibe of Koheed being quote unquote back after their three-year gap between No World for Tomorrow and this current record, and you know, such an interesting time in general for the band. First I mean, really, it's the first record that has Chris Penny on it, but it's kind of ushering in a new phase of Koheed in more ways than one, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree, and I I think some of the the content of the lyrics sort of describe that in addition to the lore. But I have a couple of quotes here from Claudio in regards to this song. This one was actually, again, from the track by track that is on YouTube uh with Richard Christie and Matt Pinfield, but this was Claudio saying it's an important song to kind of come out with as a flagship song because I think the band is certainly very confident, and to come out with a statement like here we are, juggernaut, I think is very important. I think it's why we chose it as our first proper single to just feel that strength.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's a great quote. You know, in general, I'm noticing uh a theme with some of the songs on here and throughout the record in general, and I feel like that theme is like defiance, kind of rebellion, you know, pushing against what is expected. The broken, I feel like, has vibes of that too, as does a track we haven't discussed yet, but World of Lines, and even Made Out of Nothing, I feel like all kind of hit on these similar, like, we're here, we're taking this scene by force, what are you gonna do about it? Here we are, juggernaut.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I think that's true. I think a lot of bands, especially a band like Koheed, they get into a certain mind state when they make a record, and I think the records kind of have a flow to them and a similar vibe and similar sort of stories, even though they may not be the same lore or whatever, but you the same message behind them. And I think you hit it on the head with like, hey, we've been gone, even though it was only three years. And here we are. This is a new band, even though it's the same band you know, we're we're coming out firing on all cylinders, and here we are. You know, look out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, great way to describe it.
SPEAKER_02I have another quote. This is from something called NZ Rock Interview. I suppose that would be New Zealand, and it's from Qualio again. He says, I thought Here We Are Juggernaut was a great song, and certainly for me lyrically, it just holds a lot of water. It's really me kind of delivering from the heart and really expressing the decisions that I made in the past year, and because of those decisions, just becoming stronger. And so that quote, I think, not only references the band, but we talked about previously that during this time period Claudio had just gotten married, starting his family. I think this song has a lot to do with his wife and that relationship also, in addition to the relationship of the band. And I I think it's actually pretty solidly obvious in some of these lyrics when we get to those.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I think that anyone who is a fan of Koheed and and knows anything kind of about Claudio and Chandra's personal life can recognize that they're like an absolute team. Like they they work together, they complement each other so well. The fact that Chandra is so involved in you know, she might not be writing the songs with them, but she's absolutely involved with the presence, certainly with the the lore. She co-writes, you know, so many of the stories with Claudio too. It it's it's true that they're not just a married couple, they're an absolute team. They're two halves that kind of make a whole unit. And in this case, I think they imagine themselves as a a sci-fi fighting force. Shout out to Chany.
SPEAKER_02Oh man. Okay, so next, let's just do a quick little rapid recap from Zach about what happened in the previous episode and where we are now to kind of lay the groundwork for this episode.
SPEAKER_01Last time on the Emery Wars. Um the Mage Wars had broken out and had also subsequently ended. They ended in probably the worst way possible with Wilhelm Ryan taking over total control of Heaven's Fence, uh, having eliminated all opposition. Three of the other mages that he was warring against were killed outright, and eight of them were captured and imprisoned in the stronghold on House Atlantic, which is his fortress on the capital planet Apity Prime. I didn't include that in the file this away for later last week, but you should file that away for later from last week. Anyway, as a result of the mage wars and the violence that spread out because of them, one young Joseph Hohenberger was killed during a protest-turned violent outbreak, I suppose. It's actually not really clear what incited the violence of the Red Army, but he was he was killed, presumably by soldiers of the Red Army, due to violence sparked by the Mage Wars. And of course, that devastated his parents, who are going to become focal characters in our story, Dr. Leonard Hohenberger and uh his wife, Dr. Pearl Hohenberger. We sort of follow things up with Wilhelm Ryan, who is reveling in his victory. Uh, in order to kind of get the populace on his side, he douses them with four loco or other uh alcoholic beverages. Basically encourages them to uh have a night of of celebration akin to New York City after the Knicks victory this year. So and then when he woke up, something was a little bit different. Something in the sky had appeared that wasn't there before, but that's pretty much where we left off.
SPEAKER_02Okay, before we get into the lore in this episode, we wanted to do a character deep dive. Last time, last week we did the mages, just in general. We didn't pick a specific character because we're sort of just getting into this whole thing now. So we picked the mages last week, and we decided because of what happens in this chapter, that this week would be a good time to introduce everybody to the prize and who the prize are in relation to the mage and man and this whole universe. And uh with that, Zach, who are the prize?
SPEAKER_01So the prize, and nope, this is not P-R-I-Z-E, it is P-R-I-S-E. That is the name of the species, although it's still pronounced like the prize. The prize are winged, angel-like beings that are essentially guardians of the key work, maybe put there by God, although what God is in this universe is kind of nebulous and and could be interpreted in different different ways, yes. Much, much like in our own universe, but in the in the in the lore of the Amory Wars, the prize are these blue. That's I guess another important quality. Both the mages and the prize are blue. I don't know if they're related to each other, although interesting, we never see any male prize and we never see any female mages, so I don't know about that. Uh, it's unclear whether their two species are actually like related that way. I mean, for what we can tell, they both kind of reproduce asexually, maybe, or just are created by God. But the prize live on star four, which is the essentially central star in the keywork, which again is the energy source that binds all of Heaven's Fence together. When you look at, if you Google the keywork, you'll find that logo, the triangle with seven stars, three large ones and four small ones. The center star, which is actually the smallest, is star four, but that's kind of the key star of the keywork. It literally holds everything together, the the center point or the shatter point, if you will. The stars call this or excuse me, the prize call this star home. And they live in a ornate, beautiful palace, I think that's kind of depicted as like just floating there in space above the star or or directly above the surface of the star. The star is not hot, by the way, like our stars. It's not a blazing inferno. It's more just like a a big globe of pure blue life energy. And so the prize can live on this planet and not be incinerated by it. But they are one of three catalogued inhabitants recognized in the Book of the Gansgrad, which is kind of like the keyworks or the Heaven's Fences version of our holy Bible. The other catalog species, essentially recognized species in this universe, are the mages, which we talked about last week, and man, human beings, which I don't really feel like we need to talk about too much because they're just like they are in our universe. They're normal people going about their daily lives, creating the vast majority of what we call society. So, prizes are guardians sent to look after man and also be ready for if and when God ever decides to intervene, as described in this great riddle, which that's maybe a topic we can do a deep dive into for another time. But the reason we felt it important to explain who the prize are right now is because the next section of the story kicks off with the prize on Vandelish, the palace on Star 4, and them reacting to a new sudden celestial object that has appeared in the sky.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so about the prize, I was curious. I I I mean, anyone who listens to Koheed knows about the prize a little bit, unless they're just really, really surface level, because the prize come up throughout the lore, and in particular songs like The Crowing, where it's like name-dropping Ambelina in general.
SPEAKER_01And the prize, yeah. They say and the prize wishes.
SPEAKER_02So my question is we'll get into this chapter, chapter six. It seems like Leonard, when he met the prize, didn't really know or believe that they existed, per se. Are the prize uh to man, are they real? Like like they know that they're there, or is it sort of like angels or like a figment of of of belief that they're not sure that like their belief says that they're there, but like the prize don't seem to quote unquote interfere with man. So is there is there proof with man that the prize are a real thing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I I I think that certainly a lot of man doubts the existence of the prize because they haven't seen them. And the prize tend to keep to themselves. They really only intervene when they feel like it's absolutely necessary or they feel like it's God's will for them to intervene. And up until now, they really haven't found much of a reason to do that. But you're right that the prize are they're a present force, they're in every chapter of the story, not just in the main saga of the Amory Wars, but also in the Afterman, and also in the Vaxxus chronology, too, the prize do make an appearance in that, although in a way that you wouldn't necessarily expect. But you're you're right that I think that their existence is kind of a uh an unknown quantity. I think people would, you know, largely doubt their existence if they've never seen them nor proof of their existence. But in the universe, they are real. They show up multiple times, but I think, yeah, they are kind of considered like angels of this universe. Oh, also another important fact about the prize, they're always naked. And this is why this is an adult story, not a not a child's story. They're blue and they're often drawn without nipples or other defining bodily parts, I suppose. But they're naked, they're also identical. They all look exactly the same, at least to uh to humans, to man, although they can have like little variations of you know, I guess what they do with their hair and stuff like that, but physically they they look identical. They prefer to be naked, although and I I mentioned that because that's that's written in this book, but they do wear they start wearing clothes later on. I don't know, I don't know if they just get more modest, but they they wear armor when they go into battle, but then also later chapters of the story, not the year of the black rainbow, but the Ambry Wars, they're seen kind of wearing like uh like robes, I guess, or like Greek kind of toga looking garments. So I don't know if maybe just when they started hanging out with humans, they they felt like they were causing too much of a ruckus by being naked all the time, but uh in their natural state, they prefer to be nude.
SPEAKER_02I can imagine. Well, even in this chapter, Hohenberger was like, who like he was like taken aback. But I think that's uh that's a good place to start with like the lore, the breakdown of the lore. And the uh to to be clear, the chapters for here we are juggernaut, we determined were chapters six, seven, and eight, and then of course also like the prologue chapter or like the introduction or whatever. So chapter six, it's really the first the introduction to the prize that they were mentioned before, but I don't think there was any actual like characters or like scene setting with the prize. And the the the chapter opens with paranoia, which is a fun name for a person or a prize, uh, who apparently Zach can maybe break this down, she's the guardian or a guardian, and she sees this black rainbow uh appear out of nowhere. It's funny, they all call it a black rainbow, which I guess, you know, if you watch the the video, we'll get into that later too. But it I guess it kind of looks like a a black rainbow, but it's funny to me that everybody had that same notion that that Ryan and the prize and man and Hohenberger, everyone's like, hey, it's a black rainbow, look at that. Anyway, so they're they're sit standing there seeing this black rainbow, and and they're sort of debating about what it is, why it's there, what can they do about it? And I believe it's Paranoia who thinks they need to go and interfere, basically, or was that Ambolina?
SPEAKER_01No, Ambolina was more cautious.
SPEAKER_02Um Right, okay, that's what I thought.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Paranoia thinks that it's a sign from God and she needs to go interfere, and that he's angry with their allowing Ryan to take control of Heaven's Fence and the creatures on it. And your point about the black rainbow is interesting. So the black rainbow, and this is always now uh they make a point of it being capital B, capital R. Every single mind on Heaven's Fence just comes to immediately accept that it is the black rainbow, and that's a proper noun. Now I think that's kind of what what the black rainbow actually is, we can dive into theories about that, you know, maybe maybe a little bit later on. But this I think is kind of like the first hint of the story that there's something more metatextual to this, something going on behind what you know the characters or any inhabitants of Heaven's Fence realize, something more uh on omniscient. But yeah, I just I just wanted to point that out on the introduction to the Black Rainbow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I think that's an important key point, kind of a file this for later moment, because in the first, like the second stage and in keeping secrets, I don't really know that they dive into that too much. You would probably know better than I do it, but uh that becomes like a focal point of good Apollo, obviously. But anyway, that chapter is pretty quick. It's pretty pretty easy, and it's just really like an introduction to the prize and real basic stuff about who they are and what they're doing, and then you you get this disagreement about interfering with uh man because of what they're seeing and trying to determine whether it's a message from God and what the message is saying. Chapter 7, we find a similar disagreement, or not really a disagreement, but a similar conversation between Ryan and Mayo, his general. And they're both talking about the black rainbow, again, have come to that conclusion that they see a black rainbow, and they're trying to determine is it a message from God? What what is it man-made? What is it? And I believe Ryan determines that it's like a challenge from God, that that he's he's done so much and and whatnot, but God is not impressed, and he's like laying down the gauntlet. Is that is that is that your read on that?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yeah, no, Ryan's whole character from this chapter of the story, meaning this album, all the way through No World for Tomorrow, is sort of you know existing in defiance of of God, and believing he is the almighty power and trying to prove I not just to you know the universe, but also to himself that he is the divine, you know, being who holds all the power. So yeah, he definitely sees he I May Mayo has an interesting line where he says, uh, I generally associate you know warnings as being put up by those who are weak. So they think, well, if God exists, then he's scared and he's using this as like sort of a tactic to scare, an intimidation tactic.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I yeah, th their conversation was was sort of fascinating in general because you tell me if I'm wrong about this read, but to me, Ryan has a little bit of vibes of Grand Admiral Thrawn with his military tactics and how he studies to a T to learn his opponents, their idiosyncrasies and their weaknesses, and like just he comes in way more prepared than anyone would ever be, and he destroyed everybody basically in the mage wars. I I didn't get paleon vibes from Mayo, but I I I did I did sort of feel a little bit of thrawn in Wilhelm Ryan.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. I have never made that connection before, but upon reflecting upon the chapter today, I do kind of see that. I would imagine there's no way that Claudio hasn't read Air to the Empire, right?
SPEAKER_04Like for sure.
SPEAKER_01He probably read it in 1990 when it came out. But yeah, I mean I love Grand Admiral Thrawn, and I love his his character because he's always one step ahead of everyone else. Uh he's very Sherlock Holmes in that way. Like he's he's studied art, he's studied culture, he studied history, and so he always puts himself one step ahead of his opponents. And yeah, I think that Ryan has some of those qualities as well. I think that Ryan is far more ruthless and uh and uh just more of a bad bad apple, more of a bad boy compared to Thrawn.
SPEAKER_02I I agree with that.
SPEAKER_01He's kind of like Thrawn meets meets the Emperor, I guess, is how I think of Ryan. And maybe that's a great way to describe him. I never never thought about that, but yeah, I I could see it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's just some of the stuff Mayo was or the the thoughts of Maya and that were were about how how meticulous Ryan was about how he took took down all the mages and and sort of won the mage war. But another thing about the black rainbow that was interesting to me was if you think about it, or if you if you look at it, Ryan, the prize, and man all sort of saw the black rainbow as something different. Uh, we didn't mention this, but Maya and Ryan were talking about how a lot of the the followers of Ryan or the people who are happy to see Ryan in power looked at the uh the black rainbow as like a message from God of approval that hey, Ryan's uh Ryan's your Ryan's all right, he's your guy. And when we talked about Ryan thinking of it as a challenge, and then the prize, I think thought of it more of as a as a warning, perhaps.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, that's interesting, and also I I I'm just putting it together now when you listed out those are the three perspectives that we see. So we see perspective from the three inhabitants of Heaven's Fence. We see the prize, we see the mage, which is just Ryan at this point, and then we see man, and we see how differently they all react to it. And it is interesting that the prize and the mage, Ryan, they both kind of believe, like, yeah, this could be from from God. This could prove his existence. And the the prize think that God is angry and wants them to interfere, and Ryan thinks that he's a coward and that he's putting that out there to challenge him. But the human we get a perspective on in this case, albeit is is one who's having a really tough time, skipping ahead just a tiny bit, but that's Pearl Hohenberger. Uh and she uh she first she she actually says that I think that the black rainbow is Ryan, and then she also kind of just denies the existence of God, and albeit it's kind of out of out of a place of anger. But you know, I I don't think that she's the only human feeling that we only get the Hohenberger's perspective as as the humans here, but I'm sure you know the Mage Wars were devastating. Presumably, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives were lost in the violence that ensued across all these 78 planets. There's probably, you know, countless mothers and fathers and you know, brothers and sisters and sons and daughters who have lost their loved ones to this and you know are are forsaking their God in this moment for this tragedy. But the black rainbow, for all intents and purposes, being this unexplained phenomena, but that is proven in the sense that everyone on Heaven's Fenced sees it, recognizes it, and somehow, you know, mentally catalogs it as the Black Rainbow. I mean, this is a this is a miracle. It's it's a miracle now proven itself, and no one could really quite understand it.
SPEAKER_02I wish I was more miracle that nobody knows what it is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, that too. I I wish I was more religiously studied, or really that I knew anything much about religion at all. Not not in the sense that I wish I was brought up with more religion, but I I wish I knew more about it, because I feel like Claudio has you know, Claudio's family, I think, has some sort of religious upbringing. There's a reason why God is so present in these stories. It's also kind of interesting to think that Claudio Sanchez is the omniscient writing writer and therefore the god to the story. And later we find out there really is a writer, god to the story. But so when he writes characters like Pearl and like Ryan challenging God or talking smack about God, it's kind of Claudio talking smack about himself. It's interesting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I think a lot of great artists are self-deprecating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think Claudio definitely is, in the best way. He makes incredible art, but he's uh but I feel like he's probably harder on himself than any of us are.
SPEAKER_02For sure. You mentioned it already this in the second half of the chapter, basically, we shift it back to Leonard and Pearl, and Pearl is definitely in in a state. She's rejecting God, basically, because why would God have killed their son, or her son, as she says, and Leonard is sort of like he's I feel like his temperament is much more even keeled, at least maybe in his advanced age now, but like he's really just kind of wondering how he can get his pearl back the way that she was before. And it even references in the in the text that it's like an insane person that's taken over her body in in his mind. And so to escape this, he takes a walk for a while and he goes to this boulder. It's the boulder where their son Joseph was buried. It was a place that Joseph went to go contemplate and and be away from everything. And it was a place that had great meaning to Leonard, and so he goes out there and he's sitting on this boulder minding his own business, and all of a sudden he starts being spoken to, and he turns around and what what does he see? He sees paranoia from the prize. He doesn't know that's her name, but the we the reason we know it's her is because she's wearing her little tiara, they say, you know, because she's a she's a guardian.
SPEAKER_01And just her tiara, that's also stated too.
SPEAKER_02Right, and and of course, as most men and women probably would be, dumbfounded by a blue angelic creature fully in the nude with a perfect body. Anyway, we see that paranoia and the prize. I don't know, Zach may know, and maybe it's uh file this away for later, but I don't know if the prize determined to send her down or if she kind of went rogue on her own to come down and she determined that Lenny was the guy because he had done all this this great miraculous science helping with stem cells or like cell generation and things like that, that he was the guy who could potentially do something, create something to take down Ryan. And he, Leonard, is sort of like, Yeah, right, like I can't do that. This took forever. And she's like, You got it inside of you, you just don't know it yet. And I think she touches his head or something, she like she like she gives him a little bit of like prize juju, but she doesn't do anything specific to him other than make him realize that the ideas were already in his mind. And then he comes up with this grand plan, okay, yeah, I can I can do this, and this is why. And it kind of science corners it up a little bit, but the the basic fact is he was told that he has the knowledge and he determines that that is correct. Wait, I can do this, and he comes up with a plan to create some creatures to take down Ryan.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she uh she pulls a guru the Namekian from Dragon Ball Z and and puts her hand on Leonard's head to unlock his full potential, just like Guru does to Gohan and Krillin. Any DBZ fans out there, you get that reference. Yeah, so Leonard always maybe had this knowledge filed away, but essentially her touch inspires him to kind of connect all these different dots and figure out the equation or the formula or whatever it is needed to uh master artificial cellular cellular generation ACG is what they call it, to create a being or maybe multiple beings to combat Wilhelm Ryan. Actually, he it's explicitly stated multiple beings because he asks, you know, how many do you want me to make an army? She goes, No, you just need three. And he's like, Okay. Right.
SPEAKER_02Well, the the the reasoning behind it, I I can kind of see like if you're making an army of three million people, probably Wilhelm Ryan might catch on to that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. He does know a lot of things, so it would probably he'd probably figure it out pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_02So that was chapter seven. Chapter eight kind of picks it up a little bit in the future with the actual creation of Inferno, Koheed, and Cambria. We learn Inferno is the most has the most Leonard inside of him. I don't know, is it DNA or or whatever? Like just like the the makeup of him is is is the most Leonard out of all of the uh others.
SPEAKER_01And he's sort of a he's sort of a clone, if you will.
SPEAKER_02He's a clone, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but he's a really buff enhanced clone.
SPEAKER_02Right. It's funny because in my mind, when I when I hear about professors and somebody named Leonard Hohenberger, like I I imagine like a white-haired old man with glasses and you know kind of frail and and skinny or whatever, but uh Inferno, who is supposed to be like him, he's he's young and virile. He's he's you know buff. And I guess because they do describe Hohenberger as having you know a ponytail, and I think they would say he's got dark hair, yeah. Yeah, so so my vision of him is just my vision of how I would imagine a professor to be. But he really, I guess Inferno looks like maybe kind of a a jacked-up version of Hohenberger and a younger version, I assume.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this album in and this book came out around the same time as the movie Tron Legacy. I don't know if it was the same year, maybe it was one year apart, but that film has is one of the first, you know, kind of well done versions of it of de-aging technology on the silver screen in a blockbuster movie. But you have uh Jeff Bridges kind of having a confrontation between his like old self and his young self. And I've always imagined Inferno and and Dr. Hohenberger to kind of look like like Jeff Bridges in that moment, where one is clearly just the the older and more kind of scientifically minded version, but then you still have this young guy in his prime. He's got facial hair and you know darker hair, and he's you know much more physically fit. That that that's who I always like imagine as my fan cast of Inferno.
SPEAKER_02So, Inferno, we we all we learn here, Koheed and Camry, we'll we learn a little bit about their abilities and sort of about how their creation and how they they were injected basically with with knowledge, with memories and with things. Not memories, but uh, you know, just fundamental facts of things. Like they talk about Koheed, like he opens his eyes and he sees things, but he doesn't understand what he sees, but he's like learning. And then same thing with with Cambria, they're like injecting knowledge into her. I have a couple questions for you. What is Inferno's ability? We know we know from reading the prologue what Koheed's abilities are and what Cambria's abilities are, but what is Inferno if not just like a younger clone version of Leonard Hohenberger?
SPEAKER_01See, that's the thing. He doesn't really have one. Like, it's it's so interesting to me. So Inferno to me is it's crazy that that's his name, by the way, and he's the one who doesn't have the crazy X-Men powers, but Inferno honestly should be the knowledge because he is like the logistics tactical guy. When Cohe and Cambria go on, you know, have to go into the field, as in the prologue chapter, which is again what what Here are Juggernaut, I think, is really about, it's Koheed and Cambria in the field, and Inferno is on the ship and you know, kind of giving them logistics. He's kind of their oracle or their eye in the sky. We do later see Inferno can kick some ass when he wants to, and he's very good at it, but he doesn't have any like like Koheed has, you know, the fucking arm cannon and the blades, and Cambria has these kind of Jean Grey like psychic and you know telekinetic abilities. But Inferno doesn't have any supernatural abilities, I think, beyond superhuman uh strength and uh knowledge, I guess. I I think are his his two big factors. He's very smart, he's very strong. Is his name Jesse? That's his like human adoptive name, yeah. What's so yes, he he is Jesse, aka Uncle Jesse, Jesse the bad boy. He doesn't get called Jesse at any point during You're the Black Rainbow. That name is kind of bestowed upon him later, after Koheed and Cambria have to rewrite their minds.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Don't know about that. We'll get there, I suppose. But Koheed and Cambria, any idea what those names mean or how they how he came up with those as names? Those are not names that I'm, you know, like, oh, I'm gonna have a son and I'm gonna name him Koheed. Like, I mean maybe now, but not not, you know, when before the band existed or this lore existed.
SPEAKER_01That's a really good question. I know that the name was a name that I think so I think Claudio has talked about this, and I don't have references, so I could be totally wrong. But I feel like he stole the name from like a girlfriend who had these like had had an idea for these like superhero comic book characters, and they were a little bit different. Oh d and he he tweaked them a little bit, but he was like, Cody and Cambry, that's a cool name. And she never did anything with them, but he used it as a side project for you know, kind of like what eventually would be his Prize Fighter Inferno stuff. Prize Fighter Inferno, by the way.
SPEAKER_02Right. But I just imagine this this young young woman, now probably not so young, just like seething and like that fucking guy, Claudio Sanchez, motherfucker, he stole my idea. I would be a millionaire right now if it wasn't for him.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think it I I think that girl might be his first girlfriend, Nikki Owen, who Oh my god, it's a character directly directly named after her, or as as an anagram of the story of New O Iken.
SPEAKER_02Um so that's how he repaid her. Like, hey, you know, don't worry about it. I stole your characters to name the greatest band of all time, and you get to be a minor character.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's interesting, uh this is jumping way ahead, but Nuo Iken is actually appears at least, you know, she she she's in every chapter besides this one once she's alive, but she doesn't she's like one of the only characters in the story who doesn't die a horrible death.
SPEAKER_02So he was he was nice to her. That was his repaying repaying.
SPEAKER_01But I but I know that I I know that the band liked that name and they decided then to use that as as the band name. So that I I think was why he decided to name his characters Koheed and Canberra. So in Universe, I don't think they're named after anyone in particular. They're just cool sci-fi names, and that's what he decided to call them.
SPEAKER_02So to close out that chapter, chapter eight, we do see the weapons being affixed to Kohed. We learn a little bit about that. There's some mishaps there, and then we don't exactly know, he doesn't go into detail about what exactly Cambria's powers are in this particular chapter. We do find out that I thought this was interesting, there was a very, very small percentage of mage DNA in Cambria. Did you catch that? Yeah. And and then somewhere I read that Kohid had Joseph DNA in him. Is that true?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I so I think that Koheed is almost supposed to look like a grown-up version of Joseph. Is that that's that's how it was described. That's how I interpreted it. Which makes sense. I mean, Inferno and Koheed do look like they could be related, but instead of being brothers, like now they're designed to be, you know, their their templates were father and son, which is kind of interesting. Yeah, Cambria has a little mage DNA, and she also has a little something else that the prize that was gifted by the prize, but the origins of which are not known. Um, and that's a that's a file this away for later.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and then if we want to go back to the prologue, it's I believe the prologue introduction, whatever, the first the first chapter, uh, or the first prize or pro prize, the first prose is their first mission, if I'm not mistaken. And it's the mission where they go to the howling earth and they find out that somebody is drilling into and draining the keywork energy or harvesting the keywork energy, and it goes awry for them, and that's actually the chapter that they Koheed says the words, here we are, juggernaut.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and he kind of says it to this uh this giant well of keywork energy that is you know huge in this uh intimidating presence, but that's the juggernaut that he is saying here we are to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so that that's a fun chapter if you want to go back and read that to sort of just see them in action, even though it's kind of the first time. You got all three of them there. Inferno is he's the guy in the chair up in the uh up in the the ship. So the Ned Soheed Spider-Man. Yeah. And uh Camria's MJ. Sure. Okay, so let's uh let's break down the music and the lyrics a little bit here from the musician standpoint. The song has a nice kind of sort of industrial electronic intro, which I've always kind of liked. It it really kind of sets the tone, but it's quick. It's not that long, and then you get into the the the introduction proper, and it it really it's kind of sets the tone. It it's It doesn't get to that triumphant place that the music gets to eventually, but it it is kind of like this eerie sort of feeling I get when I when I when I hear that song.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the intro, like like you said, it's it's quick, but it has these like really like sci-fi kind of squish, like that's the way I would describe it's like kind of squishy sounds, like like Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh it to me it it feels like experiments in a laboratory, like that might be the the actual birth of of the KBI. It maybe not, maybe it's just a weird sound, but that's that's how I interpret that. And then once the uh the guitar kicks in with the main riff in the drums, of course, like that is like the boom, here we are. This is Koheed and Cambria on their first mission taking on Wilhelm Ryan and his forces.
SPEAKER_02Right. Okay, the lyrics, here we go. First verse keep your secrets in the dark, nothing matters anymore. Bodies breaking, drive me crazy. Oh, this is not your place. No, this is not your playground, it's my heart.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm supposed to react to that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, this is not your place. No, this is not your playground, it's my heart.
SPEAKER_01So to me, that that screams, you know, obviously they're operating in secret, away from the prying eyes of Wilhelm Ryan. The bodies breaking, I think, could be multiple things. It could be the literal, you know, dead bodies left behind in the wake of the mage war. It could be, you know, Pearl and and her spirit breaking in in after the loss of her son, and she is also being driven crazy by this as well, too. This is not your playground. That's my heart. That's an interesting line, isn't it? I don't know what to make of that one. To me, it could be Pearl, it could be Hohenberger, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I kind of feel like almost every line in this verse you could take in a different way in the lore. Like it could be somebody saying it, somebody saying each line is a different person. But the last one in particular, no, this is not your play playground, it's my heart. I definitely was thinking Pearl or Ryan. Those were the those are the two that came to mind for me personally.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. Why Ryan?
SPEAKER_02Because he believes deep down inside that it's not our playground, it's his heart. Like he controls everything in my mind. Like he he's he's the god in his mind. It's not God's playground, it's it's his, basically. Like he's in control.
SPEAKER_01I see it. But yeah, I think your point is right that all these lyrics, just like many Kohe lyrics, can be taken in in multiple directions.
SPEAKER_02And to take it literally, or to take it from Claudio's personal life, I don't know exactly what this verse is pertaining to, but I do think it's sort of like a a coming out of the dark kind of verse, and whatever if it's about the band, if it's about the relationship, like getting to the point of marriage or the band like getting back off the ground, I think I think it's a re-emergence or or an emergence type of message.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's a that's a fine way to interpret that.
SPEAKER_02And then we get into the chorus. I one thing that I wanted to point out too before we get to the chorus was the bass in this song. The the guitars are kind of out there doing stuff, but the bass is really driving the the song. The whole the whole way. Like the bass is doing the like the the whole the whole verse, and Mike Todd kind of goes crazy, gets higher and stuff in in the uh the choruses, and then it the whole band kind of joins in at places, but like in the verses in particular, the drums, Chris Penny is playing these like sixteenth notes with with ghost notes. He's taking the hi-hat and the snare drum and like doing this really kind of cool rhythmic 16th note, ghost note kind of beat. And it's interesting seeing Josh's take on it because he doesn't do that, he does he does more like kind of what I would do. It's more easy part, but the the bass and the drums really kind of drive this song, or the guitars kind of are like more of like the air and the spice around the song. And I I just I really liked the bass line. I don't really notice the bass line as much as I should. I like this whole podcast process has gotten me to really like kind of dive into the the music of stuff, but I really I really just wanted to point that out that I I thought the bass line was really cool in this and it really kind of helps drive the song and you don't really notice it.
SPEAKER_01Is this Mike Todd operating at the apex of his musicianship?
SPEAKER_02I don't know, because I think everyone thinks his his apex or the bands is like earlier, right? But I suppose when we when we get through it, uh I'll be able to give you my take on it when we get to those albums. But I was actually s sort of thinking that the playing kind of reminded me of Zach Cooper a little bit on this song.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I could see that, and that's why I think that he fits so well. I it it's it's well obviously we've seen we haven't seen the band play this song a lot live, unfortunately, but we have seen it at least a couple times each, I want to say. And the vast majority, maybe the only times I've ever I've ever seen them play it with a full band, have been with Zach, actually. Because the one time I think that I saw them play Here We Are Juggernaut live was acoustically for the Never Ender second stage, a night with Kohe and Cambria tour. So I don't think I ever got to see Chris Penny and Mike Todd play the side of song live, but you did for the Year of the Like Rainbow Tour, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I'd have to go back and look at the set list, but I can't imagine they didn't play that song. Yeah, they'd have to. But for sure, I feel like I've seen Josh play it a couple of times, uh, especially early on in 2012 when he came back, or 2013, whatever year it was, the year they played with Heaven and Hell, and I think they played it on that tour, and I saw them on like a side headlining show in Reno. That was like when Domino was brand new. It hadn't like, I mean, it was just like a live version had leaked. Uh Juggernaut was definitely on that set list too. And I feel like there was one recently where they played Juggernaut, but uh, I I didn't bring my set list with me, but maybe we'll go over to the show.
SPEAKER_01We saw them play it, I want to say two years ago. Was it 2024 with Primus, maybe?
SPEAKER_02That that makes sense. I was gonna say perhaps uh with Primus or Incubus, but that that makes that makes sense. So they they do play it. It's just not it's not like shoulders at every show. Uh or or welcome home. But anyway, let's continue on.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think lore-wise, that's pretty simply explained as you know them being exposed, they're not careful in their first mission. They attract the whole attention of the Red Army.
SPEAKER_02They literally were stupid and got caught.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they literally were stupid and got caught. But nothing matters. Let's it's kind of like, okay, well, now they know that we're here. So what? Let's keep going. Uh, this is what we were made for anyway.
SPEAKER_02Take them out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Do you have any theories of to what it means in the real world?
SPEAKER_02I think you can look at it both from his relationship standpoint and from the band standpoint. The we were stupid, we got caught, could be referencing the band and having their struggles and their problems with their members when they were at the height of their popularity, having these internal conflicts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then nothing matters anymore because they've rekindled, they've restarted. And guess what? So what? Here we are, juggernaut, we're back in this thing, and you don't even know what's gonna hit you now. And yeah, from the from the relationship standpoint, I think I think love is a very powerful thing. And we were stupid, we got caught. I think is is a funny way or a fun way of sort of thinking like we didn't mean to fall this deep in love. We just it just happened. Like we didn't like we weren't stupid, but but you know, like we got caught up in the feeling or in the emotion of it. Yeah, we weren't we weren't planning on this, and then it gets to that point, nothing matters anymore, and you know what? Fuck it. You we're we're in this, we're together, we're getting married, we are a power couple that will rule the world.
SPEAKER_01You don't think it's uh about Claudio having an affair with his mistress?
SPEAKER_02Uh new uh Nikki o No, I don't think that because Claudio is a wholesome lad and a role model for for all.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_02So, musically speaking, the band picks up with the bass and the drums. The drums they they were doing that go sixteenth note thing, but now it kind of shifts mostly to the hi-hats, and he's doing accents on the hi-hats with his 16th notes. It's a really kind of a cool flow and the bass is still driving and it kind of goes up and down with it. But the guitars, I think, kind of join in playing the rhythm part, playing with the rhythm of the song as opposed to sort of like floating around it like they do in the verse. And then the chorus is just like epic. It's just like it has this triumphant feel to it, and like the way the vocals come out, like it's just so catchy, you can't not love it, in my mind, if you're a coheed fan.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, it's it's iconic Koheed chorus for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So, verse two courage broken, lashed to scars, can this love be what I want? Bodies breaking, driving me crazy. It's your fault.
SPEAKER_01No, it's your fault. Yeah, this that's another I feel like this is just c Claudio waxing poetic at this time. I I don't I I don't know if there's literal meaning to be interpreted by by this so much, but courage broken, lash the scars. I mean, that that again getting caught, they could have their courage broken momentarily. Lash the scars. There's there's some scarring that happens, physical scarring, in the fights between the KBI and and and Mayo, uh more so in their second fight, which hasn't really happened yet, but and also there's a lot of emotional scars, I think, on some of the characters here, Pearl in in particular. Well, I so I think maybe this could be referencing that the KBI was literally an entity that was kind of born out of pain. It was the pain inflicted on the Hohenbergers that was the catalyst to put the wheels in motion to defy Ryan and build this three-man army or two-man and one-woman army.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I interpreted it from the literal standpoint: courage broken, lash to scars. Can this love be what I want? From the band perspective, again, they were as popular as they ever were gonna be at a certain point, and they had all this inner conflict and drama. Their courage was broken and lash to scars. But the band, the band is is his love, right? Obviously he loves Chandra, but the band is is his love. Can this love be what I want? He's questioning I think himself and the band in general. He's wondering, is this really what I want? Bodies breaking driving me crazy. It's like standard, like you know, he he doesn't know what to think. Bodies Breaking is sort of I think not a metaphor, but maybe a metaphor for like just really having a breakdown or just not not knowing what to do. And then it's your fault could be talking to the fans, could be talking to the haters, it could be talking if this is like literal talking to his wife, like I'm I don't know what to do, this is your fault. That we're I'm so happy.
SPEAKER_01I think that it's your fault in the way that he sings is more of a deflecting blame.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01And I think that in the context of the story, the it's your fault is absolutely pearl to uh Lenny. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That that that that's uh that's a comes up a lot with her at this point in time in the story. Yeah. So uh musically, I think it's pretty much the same as the first verse. The bass is still driving, the guitars are doing what they do, and then the chorus comes, chorus lyrics are the same, but one thing as a drummer I noticed is in the second chorus, he doesn't do the hi-hat thing with the accents on the hi-hat. He he goes, he shifts it over to the crash symbol. And he's he's not like crashing it like a hardcore band. He's he's being much more sort of delicate and precise with it, but it it's definitely the crash symbol, and it's just a you know, the song is is moving forward, and he's adding a little bit, a bit a little bit of a layer to it to make it a little bit different and distinct from the first chorus.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. As a non-drummer, I I didn't pick up on that, and perhaps I should. I've listened to the song, you know, probably at least a probably close to a thousand times in my lifetime. Uh maybe that's a maybe that's wildly off, but easily hundreds. And that's the fun thing about Kohe music is you can always pick out new things when you go back to the song. So there's always something some little layer, some little thing hidden beneath the surface that you you pick it out and you're like, oh, that's cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, their music is evergreen because of that. You you you always will find something new if you're looking.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So then we have the bridge, and the bridge breaks it down musically like like a bridge would. The bass is the bass is still still doing its its driving sort of thing. Like the bass is really the heartbeat of the song in my mind. The drums break it down to this tom beat. It's it's still uh an uptempo beat. It's not like a tribal beat per se, but it's it's definitely on the toms. And the lyrics, here we go. So let's hang us a hangman, we'll bury our burden in blood. Oh, so hang us a hangman, we'll bury our burden in blood. Become stronger, juggernaut. Answer me, did we take this too far? You've given all I could need, did we take this too far? Oh, but your kiss won't leave me be. Did we take this too far? 'Cause your teeth just won't stop chewing out my heart.
SPEAKER_01Hang Us to Hangman, I think, is literally Wilhelm Ryan is is is the hangman, or may maybe Mayo and the Red Army in general are the hangmen. And they want to bear our burdens and blood. I mean, this is just violence reacting to violence here. Become stronger, juggernaut. Violence on both sides feeds the fueling end. So this I actually think this is kind of getting way ahead here, but gonna throw this out because it's a it's a big element of the prologue chapter of the story. So Wilhelm Ryan is harvesting keywork energy, which we learn is made of human souls. And for what purpose? We don't really know yet, but he needs a lot of keywork energy. He's gathering it all for something big. And in later chapters of the story, we learn that this is a weapon. I won't go into detail about what kind of weapon this is yet. We'll kind of wait wait for that to to spell itself out. But I think the juggernaut is Ryan's weapon here. And so the violence on both sides, the death, the souls being added to the keyword are fueling the juggernaut.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I could see that. I I the juggernaut. Okay.
SPEAKER_01The juggernaut is not the name of the weapon, but I think that that's you can interpret that as a right.
SPEAKER_02You could that that that could be a good weapon name, or it could be a standard for a weapon. I I I get that. I think from a true life standpoint it's some of the same themes that I've been talking. I think this whole record is a lot of redemption for the band. And in this, you know, we'll bury our burdens in blood. Hang us a hangman, it's maybe Josh. I don't know. We'll bury our burdens in blood. It's like we we had to eradicate ourselves from from the guy who brought us down, and we've become stronger, jug or not.
SPEAKER_01So I think there's a political aspect of this song too. And I think that I don't think that's that's un you know, there that there's not reason to believe that because there's a lot of political aspects to Koheed's songs. Dark Sentencer is a huge, uh, huge example, but you know, music videos like Toys and Black Sun or uh uh whatever the new one on the record is, One Last Miracle. Koheed is is not afraid to kind of dip their toes in the political sphere and sort of give commentary. And it's interesting, and at the time of this record, 2010, you know, there was a huge economic crisis going on in the United States. And I think that Claudio and Kohit as a band in general have always been kind of in touch with, you know, the the working class people, or they they've they got they've kind of felt more alongside them.
SPEAKER_02I they're they are literally a working class band.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And the artwork on the cover of this novel, the original artwork, by the way, not the new one coming out, but it shows, you know, a protest turning clashing with the army. But I just had to look this up to see if the timeline matched up. It didn't quite match up. It invokes to me images of the Occupy Wall Street movements. Uh but those were in 2011 and this was 2010. But I still I would do think that some of the political unrest and you know the the feeling of hopelessness of the you know millennial, older millennial generation that was at this time kind of graduating high school and college and coming out into the workforce of real life and realizing that all the things that had been sold to them, like, oh, you just have to do good in school and go to college, and then life will be easy and you'll get a good job and you'll be able to buy a house and have three or four kids and live a great grand life that was kind of sold to them by their parents' generation was no longer accessible to them. Uh and so I think that the just anger at the establishment and things that got them there, uh I think that's kind of present in the lyrics of this song and this album in general, but certainly in the the the visual painting of of lyrics like these.
SPEAKER_02So the structure of this song is pretty straightforward. There's no guitar solo, I believe, right? Just standard bridge.
SPEAKER_01There's no guitar solo. There is a really cool guitar part that I wanted to point out by Travis. And I know this because I just learned this song about I guess it was about a year ago now, but he does this really cool kind of floaty guitar part, you know, high notes and the Reaver bonnet on on the guitar licks, they uh remind me of of kind of like ghostly howls, like the souls of the howling earth. And I don't know if that was done intentionally, but that's always what his uh do do do do do do do do do do that's always what that's kind of reminded me of is like souls floating in in the keywork. And I was trying to like listen closely to to see if like that sequence or that melody was a callback to something else, because it kind of felt like it could have fit in the you know, ring and return or or in the keeping the blade or second stage or bend blade kind of vibe, but I don't think it's it's a direct reference. to that it just feels sonically like and has that like that it shares DNA with those motifs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah that that is a that is a cool lick and it adds to the whole ambiance of the song. And so after the bridge we get the the final chorus same lyrics uh does end up saying why why why why at the end but uh again from a drummer's perspective musician standpoint Chris Penny takes it up another notch if you remember I said he did the hi-hat thing in the first chorus and he graduated it to the uh crash symbol in the second chorus now on the third chorus he kind of goes ham he goes a little bit harder and and he's like doubling down on the the crash symbols but he's doing it in sort of the same accented way he did the hi-hats. So like where he was accenting the hi-hats playing the 16th pattern he does it with the crash symbols now so it's across the the crash symbols which I I just I love little things like that. And you know Josh has his own little things but I think this is the kind of stuff that Chris does really well adding to songs like his his version of Spice and this song to me will forever be iconic and I I will always listen to it and it's it's it's one of Chris Penny's major stamps for me.
SPEAKER_01It adds to the kind of chaotic energy being unleashed at the end in this like big exploding chorus switching to the crashes there. Travis's part in the chorus is one of my favorites too the da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da it sounds easy to play it's not as are many coheed parts it requires a lot of really fast switching of your fingers and also some pretty good finger stretching and and uh barring across multiple frets there to pull that off and make it really smooth and I took me it took me like a month just to learn that part and event I was so proud of myself when I did because it's really it's it's way tougher than it sounds but it sounds so cool and then he bounce he bounces off with that that really bouncy do uh I don't know if that is it has anything to do lore wise with the song but I just wanted to point out that's one of my favorite parts of the song I love it. I think it adds so much cool texture and dynamic quality to the chorus.
SPEAKER_02Yeah for sure. And before we we end, I wanted to mention the music video you had reminded me to watch the music video and this one feels very lore centric.
SPEAKER_01Like it's almost like literal it it is however it's kind of as other coheed music videos do I mean absol absolutely like it's it's very there's the black rainbow in it that's the biggest part black rainbow appears in the sky and it's kind of intercut with people in the city which is probably New York City looking up at the sky and and just acknowledging it and there's a lot of like wind it seems like things are being like sucked up into it. To me the black rainbow is like it's like a it's like a void like and it just it's like pulling energy into it. In the book they talk about how like you know the days that were normally sunny turn kind of cold and gray while the black rainbow is above them too and I feel like that's literally the black rainbow is kind of siphoning off the keywork energy that that sustains life. Shit starts happening yeah yeah but the music video back back to your point it is absolutely lower centric in the sense that there's the black rainbow there. However the two characters in it are not alive the the the two characters that are depicted in the music video are not alive at this point in the story. And Claudio Sanchez has you know explicitly stated that the two character leads that are not band members there's a male and a female they're both kind of young they're supposed to be teenagers but they look like they're in their mid-20s as many Hollywood teenagers do are supposed to be Claudio Kilgan who is the son of Koheed and Cambria and Wo Ickin who is the girlfriend of Claudio and this is just ruining the whole canon for me. Nikki Owen so all I have to say is that the music video for juggernaut to me is is kind of at the time more of a Koheed's greatest hits lore lore music video like and there's a lot of Easter eggs in it too. There's lots of dragonflies there's lots of keyworks there's a 33 uh jersey in there too I don't know if you caught that missed that but I did see the keywords particularly the last one at the end of the video oh yeah there's a huge CGI keywork that actually has all the planets and the stars uh displayed in its actual formation for kind of the first time which is cool for 2010 looking at that uh it looks pretty you know dated now but peak CGI for New York rock band in 2010 to have something like that. But uh oh and Peter David's in the music video too uh very briefly you just see a shot of him with his daughter looking up and pointing at the black rainbow.
SPEAKER_02I thought maybe Claudio's dad was in it too. I that there's a homeless man who's like like large and has a long beard that's graying but it's it's very dark. Like he he's got he looks like the guy I imagine Claudio's dad to be but I have I have no knowledge on that. I just was like oh that I wonder if that's his dad.
SPEAKER_01I don't know that that's Claudio's dad. I know that Claudio's dad does make a cameo in the running free video but in a photograph. Claudio both is Claudio's parents are in that video.
SPEAKER_02The homeless man by the way is is a canon character of the Emery Wars we don't have yeah he doesn't have a name but he's a recurring character between Second Stage Turbine Blade and No World for Tomorrow which we'll get to those in you know maybe five to ten years no anyway one last thing I my file this away for later is what's with Claudio in secrets yeah lots of secrets right in keeping secrets we keep our secrets in the dark our secrets kept are well enough the one that stuck out to me after reading the lyrics for the bridge is Vic the Butcher Hang Us a hangman and then hang your secrets hang them up hang 'em up now so I don't know that there's a connection there and the fact that you didn't just be like yeah of course makes me think that maybe there's not a connection but it did it did ring to me that they're talking about a hangman hanging and then again the connection with secrets hang your secrets and that I don't know all about it.
SPEAKER_01I read it once a long time ago Vic the Butcher but isn't there a whole sort of hangman plot between him and and Sentry or maybe that was just Sentry I'm thinking of but uh no yeah I mean Sentry gets gets hung and uh the the hangman is referenced in both Vic the Butcher and in Sentry the Defiant where he says hangman hooded softly s softly swinging. Right right right yeah that's interesting so Vic the Butcher is not present well Vic the Butcher I was about to say Vic Vic the Butcher is not present at uh at this point in the story but maybe he could be as one of the souls of the keywork.
SPEAKER_02Just throwing that out there Yeah and anyway just like Claudio's very secretive he's just very concerned about keeping his secrets and not letting them out yeah it's a real theme with him yeah well I think that about wraps it up for us. The next episode I believe is Farr that's correct that is the next song if you're to instruct the listeners on what they would want to read to catch up to Farr what would you advise?
SPEAKER_01So probably just the next chapter which is chapter nine and I realized as I looked ahead to that chapter that you could have read that as well for this one too it's it's a bit more about Coeiden Camber but there's more Pearl in that one too and far to me is is absolutely about Pearl and her relationship and and and grieving the loss of her son. So some of the stuff we've already read so far I think has uh will will contribute to the narrative of Farr but it's expanded on a bit more in the next chapter and honestly then after that the time shifts again there's a big break in the novel that says just past the middle and now we're actually going officially past where the prologue ends. So I think for far you're safe enough having just read the ones that we read which were six through eight plus chapter nine uh and you'll get kind of the full context of what you need for those lyrics there.
SPEAKER_02Sweet. Okay so this is an easy couple of weeks for you just one chapter far go back and listen to the previous episodes uh like and subscribe leave us a comment on Instagram you know just uh say what's up tell us how much you love us or think that we suck it's great but yeah we we are going through all of the songs and it's gonna be a journey so uh this will wrap up this concludes episode three of the Kohe Chronicle