SPEAKER_02 0:00

Go on and give me the gum. Let me blow them a bubble. What?

SPEAKER_01 0:11

This was a juicy fruit jingle, right? In 2010. I remember this one. It was kind of like turntable on the taco bottle.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Welcome everyone to the Koheed Chronicles. This is episode five. This Shattered Symphony from Here of the Black Rainbow, which is actually track six from Here of the Black Rainbow. My name is Joel, and I'm joined by my brother Zach.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Hello there.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Hello there. So this song, This Shattered Symphony, for my entire life until today, I thought this song was called The Shattered Symphony.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

You'd be wrong, fake fan.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Yeah, well, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

What do you know about Koheed? Mr. Koheed Chronicles. You don't even know their song names.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

That's evidently true. I also I asked, I texted Zach this morning and I was like, hey, is it Mayo Deton Wolf or Defton Wolf? Because I've always read it in my mind. It's like one of those um Mandela effects. I've always thought it was Deten Wolf, but apparently it's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

I think Debton Wolf sounds better, and if you can imagine the F being silent, then it is Debton Wolf. But I feel like it's really supposed to be Defton Wolf, and that's just tough to say. So I don't know. Like I said to you in our text, it's one of those words that feels it like it looks cool right now. It's like mayo Defton Wolf. Like what a badass general sci-fi name that is. But then you try to say it out loud and you're like, what the fuck? This is really clunky. What a clunky last name. I don't know if it's the name of someone in his real life, like where he got that name from. Um if you know, if any Koheed fans know that that deep lore, where the name Deft and Wolves comes from, you know, let us know. Call us out.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Leave us a comment. Yeah, leave us a comment on Spotify or on Instagram. But this is this is proof that this is my first time reading all this stuff. I'm just now learning that that's the guy's name. But anyway, oh man. So just a quick overview of this song. This is the first song that we've covered that there's not really a lot of stuff about this song. Even far, there's music videos, there's information about it, but this song, there's not a lot. Uh, it wasn't a single, there's no music video, and from what I can tell, just according to my set list FM research, they haven't played it live that much. They played it live mostly in Europe, in Canada, and like a handful a handful of dates in 2010 in the the US tour. But that's it. I looked that up too.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah, it was only 25 times they played it, which I was like, there's no way they play that 25 times. But they they play they play more shows than I thought they did. I was surprised they played it at all. I thought they'd never played it, but yeah, very limited run. Bring it back, Koheed. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Yeah, I I hate to use the word like filler track, because it's it's not really a fill. I mean, Koheed doesn't have anything that I would consider to be a filler track, but until I read the chapter, which we'll get into, this song was just a cool song to me, but like it's it's it's much more impactful now that I've I've read the chapter and I've read the lyrics, and it's like, oh, so that's what's going on here.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

It's a really pivotal point in the story, and I feel like before we get too far, we really need to put out this disclaimer here. This chapter, this song correlates almost, you know, directly with the chapter it's named after in the book, but that book is chapter 18, and we less last left off on chapter, I don't know, 11 or 12 or something. Uh maybe even earlier than that. So what I'm trying to say is the events of this song and chapter take place very far into the story, like way farther than we have than we have covered so far. And so if this is your first time experiencing the story of your The Black Rainbow, and you don't want to be spoiled by some major events that have in the middle of it, I do recommend that you actually skip the lore section of this. We can try to put time codes in below so that people can skip ahead to the Speak for yourself. To the other part. I say that as if I'm the person who's gonna do that. I just volunteered Joel to do that. But if uh, or you know, just skip ahead probably, I don't know, 20-30 minutes into the podcast, however long we think this is gonna take and listen at your own risk. You can talk about the music, or you can go to the next episode, which should be released, you know, soon, and then come back to this one later on. And we can tell you what when we get to the song preceding this, where you can go back. But this is a good example of how the Emery Wars story is not always told in order with the chronological order of songs on the album. A lot of times songs get moved, you know, up or just placed in in place in the album because that's what sounds best. And I firmly believe that's what happened with this song because this really covers an event that happens near the climax or the apex of the story. I wouldn't call it the climactic chapter, but it's really close to it. There's some really pivotal stuff that happens in the events of the Shattered Symphony. And so, you know, with that said, if you're caught up, you've read the story before, or you just don't care and you're like, I want to know, tell me all about it, then let's get into it. But just wanted to throw that out there at the very beginning.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Yeah, this was a a topic of discussion that we had because the whole point of this podcast was to go in, quote, lower order, but it would be very difficult to actually go in lower order with the tracks on the album, and it just I think just makes more sense for fans to go through the tracks in album order. That's the way people have generally, I think, listened to the albums. So I I think that this was a this was a good choice.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

And there's overlap between some of the events of the songs, too, that like it it'd be really tough to place them in a definitive chronological order because sometimes that would be subjective to the listener. So I think we should keep going with the way the band presented it here, but just know that the story gets wonky sometimes. They skip ahead, they go back. Sometimes there are songs that take place chronologically during the events of different records, and they're like either flashing forward or referencing back to something else. Uh so Koheed's fun like that.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

How exciting! Can't wait for that. Well, before we get into your setting the stage, I have one quote actually from this song. Believe it or not, I found one, and it's actually from one Michael Todd, bass player. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

His quote. Wow, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah. His quote here is one of the ones I had a really good time recording was The Shattered Symphony. That was one of the final songs that we actually wrote. Just the song came together in a really fun way. End quote.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Wow. That's kind of haunting now, isn't it? Because it's we didn't he didn't know at the time that it was going to be his last record with the band. I wonder, I I guess we'll never know, unless we ask, how much influence, if any, Mike Todd had on the bass parts for the afterman stuff. But this is the last record that he performs on, obviously, and the last one that we know he wrote all the parts for, or played all the parts for. He wrote them. I I don't want to take that away from him. That's cool. Kind of eerie though, looking back.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Yeah, I thought the same thing, and that quote actually comes from the track-by-track videos they did on YouTube. So it's you can actually see him saying it. But I also thought it kind of made sense that this was one of the last songs they wrote for the record because of the subject matter of the song.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

That does make sense, yeah. In in context now, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Okay. So that's the only thing I had. There's not really a lot of stories about this song or uh, you know, deep dives into the song. But uh let's get into Zach's rapid recap. And for this, I feel like we we have spoilers that are coming here because we need to set the scene for this song. And Zach will do his best to just spoil you on the pertinent things, but again, we'll go into details about all of this other stuff that happens when we get to those songs.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah. Okay, so rapid recop, rapid recap, excuse me. Uh, where we last left off was right before the time jump in the novel. Uh, and so really the KBI had just been born or created, they were getting ready to go off on their first mission. The events of Here We Are Juggernaut is that first mission on the Howling Earth. And so that's where we left off on the last you know part of the story, and also, of course, Pearl grieving through far about the loss of her son and the broken relationship between her and her husband. So, a few things to catch up on before we get to the shattered symphony here. Uh, for this number one shattered symphony. This shattered symphony, thank you. So the KBI has become a real thorn in Wilhelm Ryan's side. They've launched kind of an all-out campaign, they call it the Cohiting Cambria World's Tour. At least that's what uh Leonard Hohenberger kind of thinks of it as. Uh where they're hitting lots of Red Army sites and attacking Wilhelm Ryan where it hurts. They're hitting military sites. There's a brief summary of how they they even come to blows once, which is kind of crazy. They just kind of skim over that. But Wilhelm Ryan finds out about Koheed and Cambria's existence, not Inferno's, and his spies are able to trace uh where they came from and discover, of course, that they were created by Dr. Lennon Horenberger. So Mayo Deptinwolf comes to the Hohenberger house to reveal to Leonard that he has kidnapped his wife, Pearl. She's being held hostage in an unknown location, and the only way to get her back would be to comply with their demands. Their demands are to create a virus that would be so virulent and so deadly that it could destroy the keywork itself and potentially eliminate all life on Heaven's Fence. This is a real true doomsday weapon. Leonard is one of the only scientists in the world who would be knowledgeable enough and skilled enough to make that happen. He's kind of the Robert Oppenheimer of this story. And they tell him that they'll kill his wife and she'll die slowly and painfully if they if he doesn't comply. And that's where they they leave him. Hohenberger has to come up with a plan to comply with their demands, also which include handing over Coheat and Cambria to the Red Army. He figures out a way to do that, but also to subvert expectations, to give Ryan what he wants in a way that's not easily accessible, that will prohibit him from using this virus and potentially develop or leave enough time for them to develop a cure or at least some sort of countermeasure to it. So he contacts Mayo Defton Wolf, Mao brings back Pearl and drops her off at the Hohenberger estate. Pearl has been mentally, psychologically tortured by Ryan, and she is so broken that she pulls a gun on Hohenberger and threatens his life. They get into an altercation, Hohenberger gets knocked out. Before Pearl kills Hohenberger, she gets distracted and ends up taking her own life. Not necessarily on purpose, but she she ends up in an accident and she she dies. Leonard wakes up to find his wife dead, and now he has given over Cohen Cambria to Ryan. His wife is dead, his son is dead, he has very little left to lose, and all of this sets the stage for the chapter that is called This Shattered Symphony.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Yeah, that's a lot of information. A lot of stuff happened.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Bobshell compared to everything else that's happened so far.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah, but we will we will cover it more in-depthly as we go, but we're focusing on this shattered symphony. And after reading the chapter and the lyrics, this song seems very, very lore-centric. And basically, this chapter is about Mayo Defton Wolf. He's at a rally of sorts for Wilhelm Ryan. Uh, I'm assuming it was in House Atlantic or uh Apity Prime or somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

It yeah, it was on Apity Prime, presumably in the capital city.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, so he's having this rally, and as the rally is just getting started, he, using all of his general prowess, sees somebody running towards the front of the audience who looks shady, and that somebody is Leonard Hohenberger wearing a trench coat, I think it said he had.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

I thought he had a hoodie. Maybe it was a trench coat. He had a coatie.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Yeah. Anyway, so Leonard Hohenberger then pulls out a gun and aims it at Defton Wolf, but Defton Wolf is like a ace gunslinger, and he shoots first. He gets his gun out and shoots it at Leonard first, and he purposely does not kill him because he doesn't want to make a martyr or uh uh he doesn't want to have that out in the audience with all the people there for this great rally. And after he wounds Leonard, he has the Red Army take him up to the stage and they have an exchange, and Leonard then keeps like kind of daring him, like trying to get him to kill him, like do something, you coward, basically. And Maya's like, nah, not doing that, and then Leonard spits on him, which is like you know, the ultimate like it spits right in his eyes, and that gets Mayo over the edge, and during that distraction, then Leonard somehow frees himself from the the guards who have him, and he grabs the gun again and tries to shoot Mayo, but again he's too slow, and Mao shoots and kills him right there. He doesn't die immediately though, however. He is there on the ground, I presumably, and he's having a few last final words, and I actually wrote that down here. He he said, ends here, you're dead, dead and damned, and you don't even know it yet.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

So pretty badass final words from Leonard Hohenberger.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Right. So that's essentially this chapter. It was you know, I I don't want to call it a rapid chapter, but it was kind of riveting. It was a quick and easy read because it was like, oh man, all the stuff leading up to this, like we still in this chapter, we don't really know. I mean, Zach probably knows because he's read the book. I have not read I stopped on this chapter, so I don't know what happens. And like to me, like I wanted like what the hell did Hohenberger do? Like he had to have made this choice and said those words for a reason. And you know, there's other things I won't go into that we were revealed in a previous chapter, and I just like I'm I'm all all ears and I'm on the edge of my seat for what's gonna happen next.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, it's an interesting point in the story because uh obviously it's the end of Leonard Hohenberger's arc, uh, but his legacy obviously lives on past that, and Hohenberger, up to this point, I think you could pretty safely say was the protagonist of this novel. But now, as of the events of the song, uh he's dead. But there's still more story left to tell with this record. Obviously, the KBI have to uh you know have to get to that next point in the story. Uh, but yeah, I I really enjoyed this chapter. You know, it's it's fast paced, but there's a lot of emotional stakes at play. I remember reading this the first time back in 2010 as a wee young lad, and kind of being like you right now on the edge of my seat and like, holy shit, and I think that's why I I finished this book so quickly. Is Ear the Black Rainbow the best written novel on planet Earth? Maybe not. But is it an engaging, kind of compelling sci-fi story that was written well enough that it kept me on the edge of my seat and made me want to know what happened next? Yes, absolutely, and I think that's why I like this this story so much.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Yeah, I I agree. I I I didn't think it was like the most super well-written book, but I'm I'm engaged fully in the story and the characters, and I'm I'm in on it. So I I thought we could do a character breakdown in this episode, and I thought it was a good episode or a good song to focus on Leonard Hohenberger. And as you said, Leonard has basically been the protagonist of this whole story so far.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

And the story so far are pop bunk pan from Walnut Creek. We're not talking about them, we're talking about Coheat and Cambria.

unknown 18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

They've been on tour, but they're different bands. I just want to make sure that you knew that.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Thank you for clarifying.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Yeah, you got me thrown off there talking about the story so far.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Well, in this particular novel, the lore so far, Leonard has been the protagonist, and you know, he created the KBI, he was married to Pearl and father of Joseph. Like he's kind of got his fingers, and you know he's had his interactions with Mayo. Like, he's had his fingers in in almost all of the plots. He had the whole thing with the prize earlier on. Like, he's been he's been the guy.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

I thought you were gonna say he's had his fingers in almost all the characters, and I was like, I only know of one, probably.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Well, we don't know what he did with uh that prize that he met.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Well, hey man, what happens on Apity Prime stays on Apity Prime.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

This is a family show.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

This is a fucked up family. I don't know if you've picked up on those threads of the the Amory Wars mythos. There's a lot of really messed up family dynamics in this story.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Well, complicated relationship with his wife near the end. It it seemed like things must have been good before the death of Joseph, but basically this whole novel, his relationship with his wife has been for lack of better words, shattered. And he it's taken a mental toll on him, just like it has on Pearl. And when Pearl when he finds Pearl dead, like it had to have just like rocked his world. Do you think, Zach, that he was justified in what he was trying to do to Mayo there at the rally?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

I mean, Mayo is a bastard, so yeah, absolutely. I mean, I I think that you could you certainly sympathize with with with Leonard in that case, so and and we are made to, you know, we're we're made to be on his side. So yeah, I think as the reader, we should absolutely feel that he's justified in doing that. But he's certainly at a breaking point. Shattered is the perfect way to describe him because his whole world was was upended by Ryan and Defton Wolf, even before it all started, when his son died in this pointless war that Ryan started. His entire life has been ruined by these people. And because he was such a an intelligent and important man in this universe, you know, his death and what happens to him, those actions are gonna echo on through the legacies of these chapters going forward, too. They're gonna affect characters that are, you know, maybe not direct descendants, but spiritual descendants from him.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, was Leonard Hohenberger the smartest man in Heaven's Fence?

SPEAKER_01 21:36

I mean, if he was, he wouldn't have ended up in that position, right? Uh he's pretty smart. I don't know if you'd say he's the smartest man, but he's often described as one of the most brilliant men. Uh brilliant brilliant minds, excuse me, in Heaven's Fence. Uh that's why the prize sought him out. So maybe. It's hard to say who's the who's the smartest. Ryan's pretty smart, but I don't know that I call him the smartest.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

And I know you didn't meet everyone on Heaven's Fence, so it's hard, it's hard to say. But how about this? The the plan for the virus that he came up with, without going into too many details, he he infected both Koheed and Cambria with separate pieces of the virus. Was that like a special kind of genius from him, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah, I think that was pretty intelligent on his part because technically he does give Ryan what he asked for, which is he develops this virus because he's a genetic scientist, and he gives him surrenders Koheed and Cambria, and not only that, he surrenders them in this like sort of inert state, although Ryan's kind of upset about that because he wanted to use them. But yeah, they're neither parts of this virus work on their own. They have to be triggered, uh, and they have to be potentially extracted from their blood and synthesized from that to uh to get there. So yeah, it it's it's uh I think that was a particular, you know, smart move on his part uh to do that. It's kind of like the only way, and it's really tragic, of course, too, because he wants to tell that to Pearl that, hey, wait, there's a fail-safe. I I've installed countermeasures to make sure that this doesn't end up. Something that Pearl asks him, and we'll probably talk about this again when we get to In the Flame of Error, which is also a very directly correlated song and chapter. Uh, this this song I I would mention, if you're listening to the album and like you want to do it chronologically, this song would come right after In the Flame of Error. It would go like In the Flame of Error, The Shattered Symphony, and then When Skeletons Live is kind of where I would place this in that order. But obviously sonically different. But I digress. In the chapter, in the flame of error, the really sad and horrible, ironic part is that the reason Pearl kind of goes crazy and and tries to kill him is because she's told the truth by Ryan, which is that he developed this virus and agreed or agreed to develop it in exchange for her. And she's like, Why would you do that if it means that it's gonna kill the whole universe? I wouldn't be alive to survive that. So having the um you know, having it set up in this way where it's split between the two components, I think, was you know the genius move on his part. It it was a top move from from Hohenberger. And I think the only person in the story that might be smart enough to do that besides him would be his cloned son, Inferno.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

How about this? One more about Hohenberger. Would you call him aloof or calculated?

SPEAKER_01 24:40

I mean, I think he's probably a mix of both, and that's what makes him interesting. He's very calculated about science. Uh he's very aloof about things outside of his his realm. I think he likes to kind of exist in his own world. He's very much a creature of habit. He doesn't care about, you know, what he dresses like. He has the same outfit for every day. He only he's very meticulous about, you know, his haircuts, but they're only every six to eight months, which is crazy. Yeah, I I think he's I mean I I'm not a I don't want to speak on this like I'm some sort of expert, but Leonard comes off to me like he could be somewhat neurodivergent, you know. Uh he's very he's very meticulous and calculate about certain things, but he also is kind of oblivious to other things too. I think he kind of is a person who likes to stick his head in the sand, not that he's you know ignorant, but just he can only put his mental attention into so many things, and you know, science is what he loved, but I think it got in the way of some other things.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yeah. Well, that was a nice little breakdown of Leonard. So let's move into the song itself now, the actual music breakdown. And the song, the introduction of the song, it's kind of like I feel like it was panned to the right. And it's it's a lower volume, like a kind of a lo-fi sounding drum. And as it it kind of fades in, the guitar comes in on the left, and then it like gets to full volume, and you're into that kind of halftime bouncy intro. And it breaks into the first verse and the lyrics for the first verse. Oh, I'm giving up the one I love. I'll conduct the great disaster to scar my skin to own this hurt. And I wanted to comment on the drumming and the verse, verse one in particular. This is more Chris Penny precision, and he does this. This one actually is a more tribal feel to me, the the tom beat that he does. But it's not just a normal hit the two and the four, like he has a pattern to it that to the naked ear, you don't really notice it's there. But if you're studying the actual drum part or like listening to the drum part, it's like, whoa, what is he what is it he's doing? But he does it twice, like he does it the whole the whole way through the verse. It's very interesting to me from my perspective. But what what do you what do you think of the vocals and the guitars and all that?

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Well, the guitars I love in this song. It's one of those, it's another one of those songs, those riffs that sounds easy, maybe, maybe it's not. It's really complicated. It's a lot of walking up and down the scale very fast, and it's not all straightforward, you know, it's always staggered as Claudio likes to write his walking riffs. It the feel of it kind of feels like Guns of Summer to me in that way. It's it's it's less uh, you know, it's it's like eighth notes instead of sixteenth notes, but it's a very similar feel to the riff, and it's almost similar to uh earlier Koheed songs like uh The Back End of Forever and even Everything Evil have riff shapes that are kind of like that. That's one of the fun things about learning a lot of Koheed songs on guitar, is you get to sort of identify that Claudio has these, Claudio and Travis both have these kind of like shapes or styles that they write their riffs in and they complement each other really well. Where interestingly enough, Claudio being the rhythm guitarist, his riffs are often more intricate and difficult. And Travis's, you know, he typically sticks up in that higher, kind of more wailing register, kind of that like, you know, 70s, 80s rock, like Eddie Van Halen led Zeppelin a little bit. That's what I think of like Travis guitar style, Thin Lizzie, whereas Claudios are just more I don't know, more more pff edgy's not the word, gritty. They're more gritty, they're more intricate, they're kind of like down in the muck a little bit, but very, very precise at the same time. And that complements, I think, Chris Penny's drumming style that you were just talking about, that has that more syncopated feel in the in the verse. The vocals I love on this song. They're really haunting, they're very abrasive at times. He starts off with that, oh, that that like, you know, kind of high-pitched wail with a lot of reverb on it, but immediately they get nasty with his uh when he talks about Elkin Doc the Great Disaster. Like you really get that Claudio nasal grit and riff into it. Yeah. I I love that all the dynamics of this song.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

So you brought up an interesting point that I was just thinking about. You compared it to Guns of Summer a little bit. And it's interesting because Guns of Summer thematically, the the chapter in the book was kind of chaotic, and the song is chaotic also. It's that it's the rally that they're at, the protest that that is where Joseph gets killed, and there's all the shit happening around him, and and shots fired, and he ends up dying. This song, if you say the the music is a little bit similar, this one is also chaotic, but it's more controlled chaos. Because we Leonard, this song is I think mostly from it Leonard's perspective and about Leonard, and yeah, he knows he knew what he was doing, and he was coming to another rally. It was not a protest, but it was like another large crowd event, and it was it's kind of like two sides of a coin, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Yeah, that's a really interesting take on it, and I hadn't thought of it until just now, but that's that's interesting where you talk about the controlled chaos versus the the you know wider chaos. Yeah, there is chaos happening between the dynamics of the characters Leonard and Mayo in this song, but it's pretty much contained compared to the rest of the crowd. Now the crowd is there, they're animated, they want blood, just like Blind Side Sonny. Blindside Sonny. But they're they're more kind of under Mayo's control. These are really, you know, the people attending these are those family members at Thanksgiving that you don't talk to anymore because they went down that that ultra radical pipeline. Um that's kind of the vibe I got from it. But but you're right. Interesting similarities, but differences between the dynamics of both the story and the songs.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

So the lyrics, it was only three lines, but they they they feel very much like from the perspective of Leonard.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Totally. Yeah, and and again, and I wonder if this song has a very haunting feel on the vocals to me. Uh, and I kind of feel like that's because Leonard is already in Leonard's mind, he's already dead when he goes when he sets off on this mission.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

I think so. I think so. Just that that line, I'll conduct the great disaster. I think I think he's he's planned himself into this great disaster. Like it he's part of it.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Interesting. So you think the great disaster is him is his assassination or you know, quote unquote assassination attempt against Mayo.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

I I don't know what the great disaster is because I haven't read further, but I feel like this Shattered Symphony, what he does, is like the beginning of whatever that is, and he was absolutely a cog in that wheel.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

See, I always took that line as conducting the great disaster was him agreeing to create the virus that could potentially bring about the destruction of Heaven's Fence.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Yeah, okay. I could see that too.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

So different different different interpretations. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Yeah. Okay, well, let's get to the pre-chorus. The lyrics in the pre-chorus, they offered their hearts and we tore them apart. They offered their blood and we left them so parched. I don't know if I can give you anything you want. So that the music, again, the vocals, you mentioned this in the first verse. It's like he's kind of got this haunting, pretty feel to the vocals. And I really you really feel that in this particular portion, also, I think.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah, it's very breathy.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

The the drumming, again, just to throw the drums in there, he does this pattern with like little slices, which is like with the hi-hat opening and closing, and it's again not a super linear like two and four beat. And no, it's staggered.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

It's cool.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

It's staggered. He does it for the first bit of the pre-chorus, but then the second part he goes into normal time, which I think is a choice, it's a fun choice. And he does it again the second time. But from the guitars in the bass perspective, for me, the bass is just kind of rides along this whole song, and and it's it's got some cool stuff in it, but like it's not the focal point as like it was for Farr and even Juggernaut to me.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

The the bass, no, you I I would agree. The guitar in the in the drums, I think, take a pretty and the vocals, I think. They all take kind of center stage on this one, which I guess that makes sense. That's that's a lot of songs are that way. I love Travis's little kind of floaty, like math rock lead part in the the precourse of this song that do do do do do it complements that that syncopated part with the drums really well. I just think it's fun. I love his parts. His I I've always said, I'll probably say this a million times in the podcast, Travis's parts are really fun to play, Claudius are very punishing.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Yeah. So what do you think of the lyrics?

SPEAKER_01 35:26

What do you think they're discussing? So those can be interpreted, I think, maybe a couple of different ways, but it's tough to say because they offered their hearts and we tore them apart, they offered their blood, we left them so parts. That feels like Mayo and Deft and I'm like Mayo and Ryan sort of maybe acknowledging what they've done, but I don't think they feel bad about it. Now when it comes to when it comes to Leonard, maybe there's a way that you can interpret that, but I almost wonder if this is more of a metatextual lyric, like, you know, about Claudio's real life, like with the fandom a little bit. Like I don't know, like the the fans they gave us all their love and we went in a in a different direction with it. We didn't give them what they want. He feels doubts about being able to give them what they want, which is another second stage, another in keeping secrets record. That's kind of spitballing there, but interesting you say that.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

I had another quote that I did not say earlier because it didn't really come directly about this song, but it was also in the track by track, and it was from Claudio, and it said this quote I always hear comments like, you know, well, I want it to sound more like second stage, or I want it to sound more like in keeping secrets. I'm always progressing, and the band is always progressing. Who wants to go backwards?

SPEAKER_01 36:47

And I feel like I must have read that and had that subconsciously planted in me, because I don't think that I could have originally thought of that and had that match so perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

So well, that wasn't written down anywhere, as far as I know. That was in the video, the the track by track.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

I didn't watch the video, so weird, huh? Wow. I guess I'm just on that wavelength with him. I was trying to I was trying to doubt myself, but hey, maybe I just understand Koheed music a little bit. Yeah, I I mean I think that this song and World of Lines have very similar thematics when it comes to the real life influences, the kind of rebelling against the not quite the mainstream, but maybe whatever everyone wants them to be, which I guess maybe that's the mainstream. You know, re- rebel rebelling against people's projected ideas of what the band is supposed to be, and you know, trying to stay true to themselves while also progressing as artists and creating something new.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Yeah, I I agree. It was it's funny that you just how you came up with that, because that that was a quote I wasn't even gonna bring out because it wasn't really it didn't have anything about the Shattered Symphony in it, but you you brought it home. Good on you.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Well, look at that. Yeah, so uh all all that is to say, I think the pre-chorus can be more related to that than any specific character in the story, maybe. Just a vibe.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Okay, so uh moving on to the chorus, lyrics are Go on and give me the gun, never mind what I've done. They left me no choice. Oh, they left me no choice. Go on and give me the gum, let me blow them a bubble.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

What? This is the new this was a juicy fruit jingle, right? In 2010. I remember this one. The Shattered Symphony. It was kind of like turnstile on the Taco Bell.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

No, sorry. Uh second half, go on and give me the gun. Let me blow them open. It's out of my reach. Never mind what they think about me.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

And he's he's desperate to get her to, you know, surrender it. Never mind what I've done. It's him trying to explain that he did give Ryan the virus, but there are fail-safes to it, but she won't hear it. I love how frantic and desperate the uh screams of this of the vocals in this chorus are. Uh it's just so so emotional, so gritty. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

The the music also it has like this kind of ominous and sort of desperate feeling to it in the chorus, too. Which I I always felt it kind of has like a devious is the wrong word, but kind of a darker feel to it, but like knowing the story behind it makes it feel makes it hit even harder, and it does, it has this kind of like for foreboding doom sort of feel to it.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Totally. Yeah, it kind of feels like this is like the beginning of the end, which makes it ties into Leonard's uh final words there, that you're all dead. It reminds me of uh Sarah Connor in Terminator 2, where she says, You're a corpse, you're all dead, you don't even know it yet.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

Yeah, I'm I'm sure Claudio fan of that movie.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Who wouldn't be or who isn't? Um man, the musically, you know, it in addition to the ominous feel of it, it kind of has this more halftime feel to it, but it it it all just comes together in this nice this nice piece, the lyrics like you said about the go on and give me the gun. Like it's just it's it's like a perfect take, really. Like it's a perfect synopsis of of what is going on in the song, and it it's a great rendition of it, basically.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Yeah. Leonard has become the broken.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah, callback. Okay, verse two. I don't want to say that with mercy we decay, converging closer and faster, does all I touch turn to dust?

SPEAKER_01 41:50

So the first lyric is I don't want to say.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

I thought that's on the the Gansgrad wiki.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Interesting. Oh, okay. I I genuinely always thought it was what awful things they say.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Hmm. A real misheard lyric.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Yeah. In the in the blue.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah. So mm you know, comment and let us know what it actually is. But the that's what I have down here. Uh what you have down there also works thematically, so uh, you know, it could be either. But this again feels like Hohenberger.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

Yeah, this this whole song feels pretty Hohenberger. There's a couple lines you could attribute, maybe to Pearl, maybe to Mayo, but it's very this is very much Hohenberger's final hour song.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

And it's so his last stand. So musically, it's pretty much the same as the first verse, at least from my recollection. I'm not listening to it at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

The vocal line is different. I mean, the vocal melody is different, but it it it resolves again or goes back to the same one in the pre-chorus again, even though the lyrics of the pre-chorus are different.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

The pre-chorus lyrics, and she confessed her love, only I shut her up, as I took all her words and allowed them to rest. I don't know if I'm the man you truly want to love.

unknown 43:14

Dot dot dot.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

I love his delivery on that so much. But yeah, obviously Leonard is having some real serious feelings of of conflict and doubt with is he doing the right thing, did he make the right decision? Uh, and also I'm sure feeling really guilty for, you know, putting his wife on the the wayside for however long it's been months or y or maybe it's years, I don't know. Uh it seems more like months. Oh It's called Year of the Black Rainbow, so it's gotta be within a year, right? Um But I think he feels a lot of guilt and a lot of conflict, and that's just that's very present in these lyrics.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

Musically, the drums in this, I don't know if you notice, but the splice, the slice pattern, he reversed it. So it it starts with the f normal full time, and then it goes into the splice the next like the second half, which is uh another uh it's a choice. It's a Chris Penny thing.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

I like that. I think that's really cool. It adds uh it adds a symmetrical dynamic to the song.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Yeah, I I do think of Chris Penny as a more of like a surgeon when it comes to drumming than I do Josh. Like Chris Penny is very precise and deliberate with what he does, and it's very meticulous. And I want to ask him someday if I ever get the chance to meet the guy, like, is that all on purpose? Because I feel like it has to be.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Yeah. But maybe it's not. Maybe it's just how his brain works.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Right. Well, I was I was kind of shut down when I did ask Josh a similar question. He was like, I don't know, man, I just play.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

I just write parts. Yeah. I'm sorry, some of them sound the same.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Well, so vocally, you were talking about how you liked his you loved his delivery of these lines. You're you're a singer, you've sang in the studio, you've sang live. There's there's more to these co-heed songs, most coheed songs, but in this one in particular, the one we're talking about, than just delivering the proper note and in the proper tone or key or whatever. Like he's he's gotta get the inflection of the feeling of the character of the story. Like there's a whole lot going on there, and I think when you listen to it now, go back and listen to it now, listeners, and like put yourself in that mindset. Like he did a great job delivering those lines.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Yeah, it's just so it's it's just dripping with emotion and dread and you know, all these conflicting feelings. I I I would love to see the rod takes. I'm sure it's on the New Year, the Black Rainbow documentary, you know, a couple clips of him singing that into the microphone. I feel like it is. But yeah, just incredible work on his heart.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

I think you're right. I think there is something in that documentary. I feel like I remember him standing and like leaning and doing something.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Yeah. It's it's like these lyrics, this vocal style, Claudio sings in a way that you can't half-ass. Like he has to give your full effort into it all the time. Because his just his unique vocal style, the the keys, the range that he chooses to sing in, granted that's the range of his voice, but he puts so much inflection and you know dynamic control into it. It's such a cool thing to to listen to.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

And by the way, like I I'm sure it's happened, but I can't remember any time where I've seen them live and been like, oh, Claudio had a bad night tonight.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Yeah, I mean I've definitely we've seen him a lot now, and I've definitely seen, you know, especially toward the end of the tour tour, I've seen some better takes than others, but I've never quite I've never seen a night where I was like, yeah, he sounded bad. There were nights, I remember it was, I think it's two years ago maybe, where um his voice was so shot he was having problems with it that he like took a couple shows off and had Chandra sing. Uh that's right.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Yeah. We didn't go to those, but that did happen.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

I it would have been it would have been cool to see maybe it would have been sad if it was my first time singing them, but I I admire that they did that. But yeah, he's constantly on it, and it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Okay. So then the the chorus, I believe, is pretty much the same as the first chorus, just uh standard second chorus. And then we get into the bridge. Bridge has lyrics. Little have they learned anything about me, meddling eyes that judge mistakes, what awful things they say when backs are turned and no one's looking.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Oh, so they do say what awful things they say, but it's in the bridge, not the second verse.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

I wonder if I misplaced that or if I I honestly did think it was that in both. So I probably didn't.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

We'll have to go back and take a look.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Okay, well, another layer to the mystery.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

So this the the bridge, there's no guitar solo, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:07

Uh no. Yeah. It's just uh it's just a musical bridge, no guitar solo, it's all focused on Well, no, that's not true. There's a little guitar solo, it's it's uh kind of tied in with uh with uh the vocal lines after that where he just goes like that uh which I've always thought he was saying denial, but maybe not.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Yeah, so there's a little something there, but it's a a good bridge. It's it's interesting bridge, but I I don't think that it's like a lot of bridges you can see like this is the climax or this is like the apex of the song. I don't really look at the bridge that way. I feel like the bridge is like leading up to the final chorus and the outro and the the final chorus, like it leads right into that final chorus, which the lyrics I think are the same, but then the outro, the outro where they start, it goes into the halftime, oh the in the shattered symphony, in the shattered symphony, and then you have the gang vocals, give me the gun, go on and give me the gun. Like it's it's almost like in my mind, like Hohenberger psyching himself up, or like he's got he's got in his mind the the crowd is yelling at him to grab the gun, or like he's he's doing something to to to you know do what needs to be done, or to get himself to do what needs to be done.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Yeah, I love the I love the outro to this song so much. I love this song. It's a great coheat song. I wish I could hear them play it live.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Yeah, maybe uh someday. I I feel like this is one that's very doubtful that we'll ever see them play live. But maybe if they if they do a never end for this, that would be something.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Even if they did a one-off like they do with the Afterman, I'd be happy with that. I would travel uh an unreasonable amount of distance to be there for Year of the Black Rain mode, never ender.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Yeah, me too. And I feel like there's a lot of people like that. But the uh so as I was saying, that the the bridge is sort of like the lead-in to the final chorus, and the final chorus and the outro have this chaotic feel that really matches the vibe of the scene that is set in the book of this rally and Hohenberger and De Defton Wolf in their little showdown, him getting shot, and then trying to shoot at Mayo, Mayo, and ultimately getting getting killed. And yeah, then the song it ends he's almost like whispering, go on, give me the gun, and it kind of cuts off, but like it it it sounds almost like a like a machine like dying or like shutting down.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

Short circuiting.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Yeah, like a computer, yeah, like blown up or something. Yeah, it's kind of a a cool outro to this kind of epic thematic song.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

I love that outro because it reminds me of the outros of Never Ender and also the Willing Wells. I guess those are the intros. But you get these really cool, like robotic machine industrial noises happening. And this one in particular sounds like the machine's going fucking crazy, it's about to blow up. Uh and to me that kind of feels like Hohenberger's brain short circuiting a little bit. I think maybe he kind of even though he's not an iRobot, I think maybe he shares this is maybe a little projection, but I think maybe he projects himself onto the iRobots. I mean, Jesse Inferno is literally, you know, a clone of him. So I think he feels like maybe a kindred spirit with them. So like maybe he feels kind of, you know, cold and calculating and precise and machine-like sometimes. So maybe his brain works like a computer.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Yeah. For sure. It w it's when you go go read the chapter and go back and listen to the song, and the song is totally different. And even if you liked the song before, like I did, like I always I always loved this the Shattered Symphony, the Shattered Symphony, but I never you know I'm not that that big of a lyric guy, but I I focused on them today when I was going back and listening to it in preparation for the pot, and I was like, dude, like this song is so so the chapter. It's it's crazy how like the lore is right there in front of you.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Yeah, it's one of the ones that's lit really literal, and it's such an interesting take again to put it in the middle of the record and not the end.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

I I think that musically it works where it is. I I you could maybe you could maybe shove it down further like you had said, but I think you need a a kind of a bump like this in the middle of the record.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Yeah, I would agree. Uh I think sonically it works really well where it is. Well, I don't know. Do you have anything else on The Shattered Symphony?

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Well, I just had to file this away for later little moment. And you know the answer. I do not. But what did Leonard do? What what what what is it like what what is his grand plan? Well, I talked about this earlier, how I read the chapter and it's like I'm on the edge of my seat. I want to know what happens next. I can't wait to find out. But like I'm I I want to know what what did he do? I I know what he did to Col Eden Camry, but how does that play itself out? And what what was his grand plan other than death by cop or death death at the rally? Like he he I I know he was planning something, but what was it? That's what I want to know. That's my filest way for later.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Well, you'll have to keep reading to find out. I'm not gonna spoil it for you here.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Okay. Well, yeah, so that I guess pretty much concludes this shattered symphony. Uh the next track, I believe, is World of Lions.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

Uh yep, that's correct. And that one also has a chapter named after it, too.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

As as our resident lore expert, would you recommend just reading that chapter, or does it cover more than one chapter?

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Well, if you haven't read the whole book by now and you just listened to the whole episode, I don't know. Uh but I would certainly focus on probably chapters 10 and 11. They're called Magicians and World of Lines. Those I think are the ones that are most relevant to the song. And watch the student or the not the student film, the short film. It's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

Yeah, yeah. That's uh another good thing to do to prep for the next episode is check out the uh the music video, but like the whole real version of it with everything. I think that's a that's a good note to to leave people. So thank you guys for tuning in and listening. Uh again, go ahead and follow us on Instagram and like and comment and do all that stuff. We love engagement. And uh thank you for listening. This has been the Koheat Chronicles. I'm Joel signing out. Say goodbye, Zach. Goodbye. All right, see you later.