The Coheed Chronicles
Unofficial fan created podcast exploring the music & lore behind every track in Coheed & Cambria's catalog.
The Coheed Chronicles
Episode 006: World of Lines (w/ special guest: LARRY FROM THE NEVERENDERS!)
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We have a guest!!! Our friend Larry from the official Coheed-endorsed tribute band THE NEVERENDERS has graced us with his presence and offers his tremendous insight as a supremely talented musician AND superfan!
Larry, Joel & Zak discuss the upbeat rock anthem "WORLD OF LINES" and all the lore surrounding it. The press, the KBI, the lapsteel guitar, the two different music videos - find out about all of it right here in this episode.
Just leave us. Let's go. If it's not worth my donut hole, it's true. Whoa, whoa.
SPEAKER_01See, this is was that on that hardcore DVD that I that I was talking about earlier?
SPEAKER_02Hey y'all, what's going on? This is Joel here. I just wanted to slide this into the top of the episode. Get ready for a really fun episode because this one has our first feature guest, Larry from the Never Enders. And he's here to talk about World of Alliance with us. But I wanted to slide this in because this is the last episode that comes out before Red Rocks and the Never Ender Festival. And I just wanted to put it out there that both Zach and I are going to be at the Never Ender Festival. And we will both be at the Never Enders show the night before at Alex's bar in Long Beach. So if you wanted to say hi, come see us. You can find what we look like on Instagram. Just go look for our handles there. But yeah, anyway, uh and Zach, you got anything to add?
SPEAKER_01Uh just if you want to witness two obnoxious brothers bantering in real life, if you can't get enough of it on the podcast, come and see us in person.
SPEAKER_02Right, there we go. So with all that being said, uh hope you enjoy this episode with Larry from The Never Enders. Here's World of Lines. All right, everybody, welcome to episode six of the Koheed Chronicles. We are going to be speaking today about the track World of Lines from Year of the Brack Black Rainbow. Excuse me.
SPEAKER_01Year of the Brack Rainbow.
SPEAKER_02I I was thinking of you, Zach. Zach. I had Zach in my mind. Uh so anyway, yes, I'm joined again of as always by Zach. How are you today, Zach?
SPEAKER_01I'm doing well, thank you. How are you doing?
SPEAKER_02Uh excellent, of course. Uh but even better today, because for the first time in the history of our short podcast, we have a very special guest. We are happy to have on our pod today, Larry from the Never Enders. Larry, what's happening, my man?
SPEAKER_00Hey, uh, appreciate you all having me out to chat. Historic moment. First guest on the podcast and honored uh to do it. And really looking forward to uh getting a chat with you guys about some cool Koheed stuff. One of my favorite topics. We'll put your name on a brick when we build our own studio.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01How many how many R's are in your on your handle? Is it like four or five? We'll put that many R's in your name.
SPEAKER_02I think I counted 15. Is it nine? Okay.
SPEAKER_01Oh shit. I think it's nine. It's way off. This is a test.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, if you want to find Larry on Instagram, you gotta just do Larry with uh nine Rs, apparently. Then you'll you'll find him. But uh so Larry plays in The Never Enders, which is like the Koheed endorsed Koheed tribute band. And I know he's told this story before, but I just wanted to have him tell us briefly like how did the or the the never enders start? Like, how did you guys meet? How did this whole thing begin for you guys?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, it's interesting because those those of us in the band, like we've always loved the band. Obviously, you kind of have to be to do what we do. Um, and we all kind of had our own little stories of things we did growing up, playing in bands and you know, Battle of the Bands and playing Koheed songs live with cover bands we were in and stuff like that, putting videos online. But uh when the first cruise came around, you know, they made like the Facebook page, and uh it was like, hey, this could be a really cool opportunity to jam with some people, right? And um, so we started posting online and kind of found each other, and it was like, hey, we're just gonna, you know, grab our acoustics and play a few songs, and we got some battery-powered amps, and kind of before we knew it, like a bunch of people were showing up, and we were we were like thought we'd play like you know, like eight songs and like stop, and like we'd play for like an hour and a half, or you know, because people just kept wanting more. So that first cruise we played like I think, I think twice. And we didn't really just thought that'd be it. And then the second cruise came, we did it again, and then you know, after that it kind of was like, well, Josh came down and played with us sometime, and you know, pretty much after we we finished that second cruise. Oh, actually, actually, yeah, the second cruise is actually where we got to play on stage with Koheed, which was pretty insane. Oh man on their their inferno song or whatever they did, uh whatever just for that. Yeah, that was that was kind of crazy at the the pool deck show. And then um after that, Blaze hit us up, you know, Koheed's Managing was like, Hey, like, would you guys ever want to do some like shows, like regular shows like on land? Like we can book you guys for some shows, and we're like, Yeah, okay. And uh ever since then it's just kind of been going. That's awesome, man. Super cool.
SPEAKER_02So you guys didn't know each other before the cruise? Like just online, maybe?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. All strangers.
SPEAKER_02That's that's wild. And so for you personally, how did you find Koheed? Like, how how did they enter your life?
SPEAKER_00Um I grew up in New Jersey, right? Um, so it was kind of a cool scene up there for all that, not too far from Nyak. You know, I could be in Nyack about an hour from where I grew up. And uh I just had a friend who like always like found bands, and I just remember, and it's not even like that person was like, hey, like check this band out. Like they just had a song on one day and it was Devil in Jersey City. I was like, whoa, like what's that? And so that that song was kind of my gateway drug. I I found them, I don't know, a few months before um In Keeping Secrets came out, but but ever since I heard kind of second stage Devil in Jersey City, the first song, I just kind of got hooked after that. And for whatever reason, like I just got obsessed with learning how to play all their songs on guitar, and I've just kind of stuck with it ever since from from back in that time period.
SPEAKER_02That that's awesome. That's very similar origin story to me as well.
SPEAKER_01And you play those songs and guitar very well, I might add. Uh I was I've been following your Instagram guitar videos for a long time now, and last year, around the time of uh the Father Make-Believe release, there was so much hype around that record, and I know all the fans were so excited for it. But I was also kind of getting back into my, you know, kind of guitar journey where I felt like I'd kind of plateaued for a while and I wasn't learning as much. And I had challenged myself to start learning a lot of Koheat songs, and a lot of your videos were the ones that showed me I was like, this is this this looks doable to play. Like sometimes you know you look at a coheat song and you're like, that's a mountain, I can't climb that. But then you just take it one step at a time and you're like, oh, that's pretty fun. So thanks for posting content. You you inspire other people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, the the the the historic like preservation part of it is like one of my favorite things. So like I I like to watch like well listen, and with nowadays with like things like logic, you know, and like stem splitting and all that kind of stuff, like you can hear more than certainly you could hear back when I started doing this, but but also like watching live videos and like slowing it down to like 50% and like getting all the fret positions right and like what notes was he picking versus like sliding on, and there's there's some really cool things that it's like I kind of get frustrated some days because it's like people people don't know how to play this song like the way Claudio plays. Like, there's these little details that kind of get lost to time, and so getting to uh getting to bring those out and share those with people and yeah, we're you know, play and and do stuff with other guitar players and musicians is really important. Like it was cool, Jill. We got to play on the cruise together that one time. We'll have to do that again. Maybe, maybe in California we'll have to bring you up for something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man. Uh actually, so that that I wanted to talk about how we met. And like I've like you, I've been a coheed fan since second stage era, and for me, it was always like there were just this little band that I loved. And obviously, people would go to the shows, the shows were big, and I like my brother liked them, I have my my circle of friends, but it wasn't until that show, the Never Ender show in San Jose, where it's sort of like I realized there's a lot of people like me who don't just like this band, who like love this band, and Zach was not available for whatever reason that day, but I drove down to San Jose, it's almost a two-hour drive just because I I was curious, I wanted to see this this coheed cover band, and you guys were awesome, it was great, the really cool venue, the art boutique out there.
SPEAKER_00Uh rest in peace.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sadly. Uh, but I met you and I met Evan, and you guys were both super cool, super nice. And Evan actually recognized me from my drum covers online. Uh, so like we had a connection right there, and like just you and I, we we hit it off really nicely, and uh it really to me opened my eyes to this this larger coheed community. So I was kind of in the dark before that, just in my own little world, going to the shows and stuff. But since then, like Zach and I both have really amped up like going to shows. I went on the cruise. I got to like you said, we we hung out on the cruise, we got to play a little bit on your your acoustic set. And we actually we did a collaboration video, you and I, on uh Window of the Waking Mind.
SPEAKER_05It was a hard one.
SPEAKER_02It was a hard one. It kind of got buried in the algorithm because I think uh actual Koheed released, what was it, searching for tomorrow or something on the on the same.
SPEAKER_00You never know, you know, you pick the day and it's just not the right day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but that that that was a lot of fun, and hopefully we can do more stuff like that. But I I did I just wanted to point that out that that Larry and the Never Enders were sort of my my journey into like deeper, like real deep Koheed fans and realizing that there are more people like me in the world. And another reason we wanted to have Larry on today specifically was because this is the last episode that's coming out before the Never Ender Festival. And Larry and the Never Enders are going to be performing the night before the Never Ender Festival, the uh official Never Ender Festival pre-party featuring the Never Enders, Joey Eppert, the Killing Floors, also fun, games, and cosplay, Friday, March, Friday, March, Friday night, October 2nd at Alex's Bar in Long Beach, California. I looked it up. Tickets right now are $24.72. That's with the fees included, and available at alex'sbar.com. So uh, Larry, this is gonna be a fun event. I know your your pre-show for the cruise was awesome. You had a lot of cool stuff going on there, and and this lineup, the killing floors are sick. Obviously, Joey, we we love Joey. Uh, and then you guys, I heard you guys are doing something special for this too, yeah?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're gonna play uh second stage turbine blade never ender in its entirety. Uh and and sick, even the secret songs, the hidden songs.
SPEAKER_02Wow. So so you actually are doing the fan service that the fans want Koheed to do.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's uh it's it's a unique thing to be able to do, and uh I love that album. All all the all all the guys that we play with love that album. So we're we're pretty stoked. Um, we wanted to do a never end for a while, but we were like, you know, when's the right time? Should we do it? Do people just want to see more songs spread across the albums? But they're having a never ender festival, so we were like, well, um it's kind of time like the present.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, they named it, they named it after your band.
SPEAKER_00A special. Yeah. We we um, you know, we'll see how long they let us play. Some nights, if the venues let us, we'll just pop off for two plus hours. Um, we're prepared to do more, some other stuff too. So hopefully we can uh knock out second stage and then take a take a little bit of a break and come back for you know another set. That'd be awesome.
SPEAKER_01I have a question for you, Larry. When it comes to learning all these songs for the second stage tourine blade on guitar, what for you was uh what song was maybe the most fun and what was the most challenging out of that set list?
SPEAKER_00Most fun. The thing that well, if I had to just like name two things on that, it's uh getting to play Devil in Jersey City, just because, like I said, that's a special song for me. Um but the other the other thing we do is we do um an Elf Tower cover. And you know, there's no there's no real Travis parts, or there's very few Travis parts, yeah, you know, on that song. Like a lot of the times he just kind of played what Claudio played. So I got to kind of create my own like leads for the song, and then I put like a guitar solo kind of in the bridge, which is just kind of like spacey and droney. Um that sounds sick. But that that was a pretty that was a pretty cool thing. Hard, I still kind of think June song might be the hardest, might be the hardest on the album. Some some of those Travis leads in kind of the um, you know, the the intro and verse, you know, he's kind of moving all over the neck. There's some fast parts to him, and yeah, you're like then you have to jump like right into octaves moving all up and down the neck. It's uh totally that one's a lot.
SPEAKER_01I think it it in general it feels like and then I'm generalizing here, but it seems like the Travis parts are sometimes easier and more fun to play than the Claudio parts when Claudio decides he wants to get really intricate and technical with it. Sometimes the Claudio parts are really punishing, but uh the Travis parts on songs like Jun Song, I I totally hear it. They're they're complex, he's jumping all over the neck, and and yeah, there's it's it's a tricky one. I've not tried to tackle that one myself. I've been having fun and also challenging myself with everything evil recently. Yeah, that's uh that's a super fun one, but also a really difficult one to master. Uh I was gonna bring that one up.
SPEAKER_00A lot of moving parts particularly punishing one on Claude.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And he sings at the same time. How does he do it, man? Insane.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, something interesting. Um, you know, our guitar player Nick uh is unfortunately not able to uh make it to the California show because it just happened to be on his brother's wedding, his younger brother. Oh bummer.
SPEAKER_05That's oh man.
SPEAKER_00So actually, our singer Devin uh is gonna play guitar and sing the whole time and do all Claudio's parts, which he ever hit. Wow. So it's gonna be holy shit. It's gonna be kind of even more of a throwback.
SPEAKER_02That's that's incredible. I didn't know Devin was that proficient. That's really cool.
SPEAKER_00He's he's yeah, he's nasty. He plays guitar in his in his own band, Followship now. They're they're amazing, they're one of my favorite bands, actually. But uh yeah, he's a they're awesome, yeah, great guitar player, but um, you know, he's he just mostly sings for us.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that'll be interesting. I wonder if he'll feel hampered by the guitar, but you say he plays it in his other band. But he he was a frontman when I saw you guys, like he was doing frontman stuff, so it'll it'll be you you heard it here, folks. It'll be an interesting, different never-ender set than what you saw last year at the cruise.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, you know Devin's got guts because he wanted to add, and we did add, a no world for tomorrow to the set. Oh, oh shit.
SPEAKER_02Dang.
SPEAKER_00It's like, oh, you gotta really, you know, that's a that's another that that's a jam right there.
SPEAKER_02How do you guys I don't want to spend too much time on you guys, even though you are the guests, but like, how do you guys rehearse? You guys all just learn your parts separately and then you come together and and jam, or you just you just show up in Long Beach on Friday and say, okay, here we are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we live, we we live all across the country. I'm here in Alabama, uh Devin's in Virginia, our bass player Pete is in DC, Evan's in California, San Diego, and then our guitar player Nick is in New Jersey. So we really don't get to practice. Uh we have to know all of our parts. We we show up, we assemble whenever we're gonna do a run of shows, and we get one practice day.
SPEAKER_02Nice.
SPEAKER_00And usually everything goes wrong. You know, it's like technology problems, somebody's travel gets you know impacted for delays, and you know, it's it's always something, but but but you know, we make it through, and and thankfully we you know have studied the music so long that you know for the most part we show up and we're good to go. Not normally by the end of a run of shows, that's when we're on fire.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, you guys challenge you guys generally, at least the couple of times I've seen you, just really nail it and do a really good job. And the crowd, I'm sure you feed off the crowd. The crowd gets gets really into it because they love these songs. They just like us, we love these songs, you know, and it's really fun to hear them played. But you know, the songs that we probably are not gonna hear Koheed play. Oh, they've been playing Devil in Jersey City, they've been playing you know, they'll sprinkle the oldies in there every set, but uh to hear the whole album from front to back, it's been a while since we heard that, so that's exciting. But I wanted to shift gears a little bit, and the focus of this this podcast today is on the song World of Lines, but in general, uh Larry, how do you feel about the album Year of the Black Rainbow? Are you a fan of the record? Are you you feel like it's an outlier? Like what's your stance on it?
SPEAKER_00I'm a huge fan. I I'm I'm stoked, honestly, that you guys started with this. It's like uh very fortuitous because I don't know, like people dog that album for a long time. Um, I feel like it's kind of coming back now, and obviously we're kind of at that point where we maybe should have gotten a never ender for Year of the Black Rainbow, and for reasons of who knows, we we haven't had that yet. So it's cool you guys are kind of paying it that uh lip service, and obviously they're coming back out with the book which you guys have talked about. But for me, I kind of actually fell out a little bit of Koheed. This was like the only time period of my life where I like wasn't super on it, was kind of like towards the end of Good Apollo 1 and then like skipping through like no world for tomorrow kind of era, but year of the black rainbow kind of sucked me back in.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00And at the time I was uh living in New Jersey, but in grad school in Pennsylvania at Lehigh University, and so I would always kind of come home for the weekends to see family and friends, and whenever I was making that drive on 78, I would play that album. It was almost like perfectly timed when I leave my apartment in Pennsylvania to get back home to New Jersey and vice versa. So I listened to it like twice a week for two years. So I I love this album front to back.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. I think Zach and I will both would agree with that statement, but I'm just throwing it out there, man. Like, never enders, hear the black rainbow, never enders.
SPEAKER_00We've uh we build it, they will come. We've toyed with the idea. Uh, there's some there's some really hard ones on here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, no kidding. Evan would certainly get a workout on that one. Yeah, yeah, no kidding.
SPEAKER_00Brutal.
SPEAKER_02All right, well, let's uh let's get into why we're all here today, which is the song World of Lines. This is the third single released on Year of the Black Rainbow, and there's actually two music videos for this song, which I'm gonna have Zach talk about in a little while. But they have performed it live. It was mostly during the Year of the Black Rainbow touring cycle, but they did bring it back in 2015 and 16. I looked at the shows they played it on, and it they were playing it in October, Zach, when we went to Aftershock, but they did not play it at Aftershock, and then they stopped playing it in February, and we saw them in March in San Francisco. So there was a brief period that they were playing it with the current lineup that uh we missed out on, and I guess they played it a couple times in Europe in 2019.
SPEAKER_00I saw that two times apparently.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I mean I would love to hear it live uh with Josh and Zach. I think that would be absolutely awesome. But anyway, I have a couple of quotes here. The first two are from Claudio, and they're kind of talking about the same thing. The first one is from a Wired magazine interview, and he says, quote, the song World of Lines is primarily about what the music press has become in the post-millennium, seeking to create a musical and cultural elitism and casting those not in favor aside. End quote. And then a second quote, again, similar premise here. This is from the the track by track on YouTube. He says, World of Lines is very much about like the press and just kind of how sometimes I find I read a lot of like coheed reviews, and because of the concept, you know, the band kind of gets shadowed behind the misconception of the band. This music's as real as it gets. So I quoted that directly from what he said, which is kind of a stammering sentence or a yammering sentence, but it's the same kind of thought process that World of Lions is about the press kind of being elitist and not taking Koheed seriously, maybe because of their their concept and their oh, there's there's a sci-fi prog band or whatever. And you know, our boy Claudio, he he recognizes that and doesn't like it. And let's see, in direct response to that, not not to those quotes, but just like to give you an idea. I found this quote from a review uh from a site called rock'n'rollglobe.com. And this is, I think, kind of what Claudio was talking about. But here it is quote for all those strengths, there are some relatively weaker inclusions as well. In particular, here we are at Juggernaut, when skeletons live, and world of lines are enjoyably hooky and biting, but they're also kind of formulaic and bland at the same time. In other words, they feel less idiosyncratic and commendable because they don't really go beyond the bare minimum requirements for an accessible rocker.
SPEAKER_01Harsh, man. That's rough.
SPEAKER_02It is rough. Uh I object. To the to counteract that, BBC reviewed the album, and and they had one line about the song, and it says World of Lines is an intense, fast, and furious warp drive of a song. And I agree with that statement for sure.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Uh I don't know how how do you guys feel about the Claudio and in the press and those those comments from rock and rollglobe.com.
SPEAKER_01It's always felt like a like a protest song to me. It's very much has always felt like a song that has a rebellious message at its core. And I I think that I had seen that track-by-track description from very early on. It was certainly on the documentary where he talked about that maybe a little bit. But yeah, I I've always, I guess, known that about that song, that it was written kind of in response to the way the press had treated them. But it's interesting how that translates into the science fiction universe where the press really isn't something that gets focused much on in the Amory Wars, but you do also have this rebellious, you know, protest by the people of Heaven's Fence as well, which we can dive into lore in a minute. But Larry, do you have any have any uh preemptive thoughts on World of Lines?
SPEAKER_00Uh I think it's a great song. It was, you know, one of the singles. The thing that I really remember about this song, and and Joel, when you mentioned coming on the talk, this I was like, that's kind of cool. And it almost triggered this flashback in my mind, which I haven't thought about in so long, but they did like an album teaser. I don't know if you guys have seen this. If not, I'll I'll send it to you all. But this is like the thing I remember. It's like when they were just kind of like unveiling the album almost, and like this album teaser starts off with like Chris Penny like doing like drum rolls just on like a pad, both like single strokes and double strokes or whatever. Um, and then World of Lines comes in, but it's like they they sequence the master tracks kind of one by one with no vocals, and like you know, we'd have to check it, but that might might have been like the first thing people heard from the album, or one of the first things people heard from the album, and it was kind of like the chorus with the guitar line on it, and it was like, whoa, like this is cool. So I that's kind that's kind of what I remember is like that one-minute teaser video where they kind of unveil the album with the song kind of a thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's crazy the things you can remember about certain time periods. I don't remember remember that. It's it's sounding vaguely familiar when you're describing it, but that would be cool to check out. It's probably there on YouTube somewhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. For for people who were interested, um, I I was digging around uh because I because I was like, can I even find that? And I found it. Um there was a YouTube channel created back then called Coheat and Cambria TV. It is still there, it has 10,000 subs and it has all of the track by tracks um and and a few other things like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was wondering, uh I was gonna ask Zach that actually, because I I that's where I saw the other music video of the the silent film or whatever was on Coheed and Cambria TV. Is that is that an official Coheed and Cambria page or is that like a just a fan splash page?
SPEAKER_01I'm pretty sure it's official. They have all their I mean the fact that they have all their documentaries and music videos up there and they're not copyright you know stricken would imply that it's official. But I don't know that for certain, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Well, I I happen to love this song quite a bit. In general, I I like the up tempo faster, more like quote unquote punk rock style stuff, and this song really it hit me in the tempo. Like that that's the tempo that I like, I like to hear, I like to play. It's fun, it's moving, it's driving, and you know, it's just it's definitely a standout track for me on this album. It I don't agree at all with it being a bland or whatever, like to me, this like we're we're gonna rank all these songs someday, Zach, and this is gonna be a a a top three or four song for me on this album for sure.
SPEAKER_01I bet that reviewer has wet socks. Just sitting in some wet, moist socks, and that's why he wrote that. He was not in a good mood.
SPEAKER_00That'll put you on your A game for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I I have one more quote, and this one I'm gonna throw to Zach and Larry because I don't I don't play guitar. I'm sort of familiar with this instrument, but you guys might have more insight. This is from Travis. Okay. Travis says, For me personally, I had already had guitar parts that I had worked on. I actually got to play a lap steel on that song. Lap steel is an instrument that I've always enjoyed playing, and I've played it on prior Koheat albums as well as when we play those songs live, and it was really cool to be able to, you know, do it on this album as well. That comes straight from the track by track that's Travis talking specifically about World of Lines, and I was trying to picture the lap steel and the sound of that, and I assume that it's the leads in the the chorus, or maybe in the the beginning of the song. Travis, not Travis, Larry. Do you have any insight on that?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I was I was I was wondering if you guys are gonna bring this up. Uh and I'm curious what what Zach thinks as a fellow guitar player, but I had the same reaction to you. It's like, hmm, lap steel. I don't know that I truly hear it. Maybe it could be there's like single note leads in the bridge that are like super vibrato-y that was like, well, maybe like he had something he was like doing that, or um in the second verse, there's this part where like there's almost like these super bends, and I was like, could they have like somehow taken one of those and like jacked up like the gain or something? Because like you watch some of the other videos and like the producers for that album, um you know, Barisi and the other guy from Nine Inch Nails, um Atticus. Yeah, Atticus. Like they're like that they said, like, oh, like you guys can't bring any of your own instruments, you have to just use what's here, and we're gonna get experimental and make it sound cool. So um if they did do a lap steel, it's like I wonder if they like did something really unusual with it to make it sound like some of those things we're hearing in those instances.
SPEAKER_01I uh I think you know it's it's funny because before we started the podcast, Joel had mentioned the lap steel thing to me, and I was like, lap steel, and I I had to I I couldn't picture what that was at first. I had I was like, oh yeah, that kind of guitar, totally. Uh but now I'm I'm thinking of it. I watched the documentary probably a week or two ago, the 30-minute documentary that came on the deluxe hardcore DVD, hardcover DVD.
SPEAKER_02Hardcore DVD.
SPEAKER_01Hardcore DVD. Uh that's the the triple X uh Kohe DVD. But no, um in that documentary, somewhere in the middle of it, I remember Travis kind of messing around with what I think now might have been that lap still that he was talking about. It was it was boxy, it was super twangy, and he's playing the lead part of the the chorus, but it was very distorted. It had, I mean the the tremolo of it came from the lap still itself, but there was a lot of uh distortion over it, which made it sound you know like like another electric guitar could have. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I I always thought that that was just normal guitar, but I am no guitar player.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, he fooled me too, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it it sounds cool, whatever it is. I I love that lead. I love I love all those leads in that song. But uh before we get into the music, uh, we're gonna talk about the story. But before we get to the story, we're gonna have Zach's rapid recap. And if you guys remember the last episode, episode five, is where we kind of had to timeline jump a little bit because the the book does not go in the same order of the songs. So this shattered symphony actually takes place in the story after World of Lines. And so we're gonna have Zach put us back into place, set us up to where where we are to stand in World of Lines.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so for anyone who listened to the last episode, we're gonna go backwards a little bit, but we did preface that one, preface that one with a spoiler warning because it does spoil some pretty big stuff that happens late in the book. So if you skipped that and you went right from far to this one, then you're still in good shape. Essentially, where we last left off chronologically in the story was the attack on the Howling Earth compound. That is sort of the prologue of the book, but it happens right in the middle of everything chronologically, and it literally jumps to the next chapter it says just past the middle. And it actually starts with chapter 10, which is called Magicians, and that is Wilhelm Ryan and Mayo Deftanwolf discovering the well, actually, it's Mayo Deftan Wolf informing Wilhelm Ryan of the attack and sort of getting ready to uh take his ire. And Wilhelm is more like perplexed than anything else. He's like, What do you mean you were beaten by two people? That's insane. And he suspects that the prize had to have some involvement with it, and he's not wrong on that front. The prize were directly involved with the creation of the KBI as we discussed in previous episodes. But Wilhelm again sees this as kind of a challenge from the prize and from and from God and further re reaffirms his uh decision to sort of fly in the face of all that and continue being an evil bastard like he is. The chapter World of Lines is the next chapter, and that's chapter 11. And it's interesting because I'm not quite 100% sure if the context of the lyrics of this song are actually talking about what's going on in that story. I think that happens sometimes in this book where chapters are named one thing, but they'll talk about something something different. In the case of the Shattered Symphony, Joel and I both agree that that's exactly what that song is about. The lyrics relate to that 100%. But in the case of World of Lines, you can apply it here, but I actually think that the events of this chapter really correspond with another song much better, even though it's a song that was cut from the album and is only featured as a bonus track called Hush. Which we can talk about that after we've gone through the whole record because we we do want to talk about the bonus songs for this record. But the chapter World of Lines is Wilhelm, or excuse me, Leonard Hohenberger. I think it starts off literally with them saying, like, Leonard couldn't believe how well everything was going, which you know is never gonna sign. Um the KBI have launched a full force attack against Wilhelm on multiple fronts, and they're gaining support from the people of Heaven's Fence. There's a lot of people who are unhappy with Wilhelm Ryan's rule, and they're kind of starting to rise up. They're seeing other people that are rebelling, and and there's there's real momentum coming up and a real challenge to his regime. And Leonard is on Cloud 9. He he believes that Kohe and Cambry are making a real big impact on against Wilhelm Ryan and the Red Army, and he's so stoked he doesn't realize that he has not seen his wife in over 24 hours. And that, of course, comes back to Biden very hard when he comes home to find Mayo Deft and Wolf in his living room waiting for him. This is the first time these two characters have met, and it's revealed that Ryan and Mayo used a network of spies to track down, you know, a short list of the only people who would have had the resources to build something like the iRobots, and it doesn't take them long to center in on Leonard. And very quickly, Mao reveals to Leonard that he has kidnapped Pearl. Pearl is in the clutches of Wilhelm Ryan, held at an undisclosed location, uh, and her life is in great peril. And essentially she's being held hostage by Ryan. Ryan has a as has a favor, or he he has something he wants Leonard to do in exchange to get her back. And Mayo gives him a like a micro like a USB, basically, or microchip that has some uh some plans on it, some files, and as Leonard peruses through these files, he discovers that Wilhelm Ryan wants him to create a virus, specifically a virus called the Monstar Virus, which if you have read or familiar with the story of the second stage turbine blade, you'll know that's a a really big and important aspect to the story. But this is the first time chronologically that the monstar virus is introduced to us as the audience. The monstar virus, well, I'll preface this by saying Claudio Sanchez, I'm not sure, has a real firm grasp on how viruses work in real life, but in in this universe, uh this virus has the power to cool the star transformers to diminish the keywork energy, and essentially that would sever the bonds that keep the planets held in place. Because remember, they're not orbiting stars, they're fixed by this energy called the keywork. And if the keywork diminishes, then the planets would float freely and potentially crash into each other and cause uh great devastation. So this virus he wants Hohenberger to create has the potential to end all life as we know it on Heaven's Fence. And so, of course, Leonard's first reaction is to say, Well, why in the world would I make you this virus uh just in exchange for getting my wife back if you're gonna kill everyone? And Mayo says, Well, this is uh, you know, he might kill everyone. You don't know that. This is this is an option that he has. And you're just gonna present him with that option. You're not guaranteeing the death of everyone, Heaven's fence, you're just gonna make it a little bit easier for him if he wants to do that. But you're that's not to say that their blood's necessarily on your hands, which of course Leonard would would feel that it is. But so Leonard very reluctantly agrees. Well, I actually I I guess I'm skipping ahead a little bit because the the end of the chapter. He actually that's that's sorry, he does say he says I'll do it. Mayo Mayo gives him three seconds to think about it, and he says, Okay, I'll do it then. And he leaves a video of Pearl on uh Leonard's uh TV, and the sound has been off the whole time that Mayo has been talking to him, that they've been having this discussion about the virus. But after Mayo leaves, for some reason Leonard unmutes the TV and his house is filled with the screams of his uh captured wife. So real bleak chapter, uh it definitely ended in a much different place than Leonard thought he was going at the beginning of that one. So that's what the chapter world of lines is, and essentially this this part of the story. But I I think that when you look at the context of the lyrics, it kind of focuses a little bit more on a passage toward the end of chapter 10, which really is just about the fight, the rebellion against Wilhelm Ryan that is starting to grow. And I think that ties in thematically with the lyrics of of the you know the the protest of feeling misunderstood, feeling like they're being placed into a box or shoehorned into something that they that they don't want to be. But the people of Heaven's Fence are are starting to revolt against Wilhelm Ryan and Koheed Cambria, Hohenberger, the KBI, they're all the the spearhead of that. So I I feel like that is really kind of what the theme of of the song is.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So if you go back to chapter 10, also the beginning of that you mentioned was Mayo Mayo and Wilhelm Ryan speaking about these two, you know, beasts, beast and the knowledge, uh, that are taking out their armies and whatnot. And Ryan is questioning like how this could be, and they're they're discussing it. But is that the chapter also that Ryan goes and talks to Crom?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes, it is. Sorry, we skipped over that a little bit. Ryan has a little has a little visit with Crom, who is also imprisoned in the bowels of House Atlantic. And Crom, we learn has been surviving off of rats and insects. He's refused food that's been offered to him by it's a real one right there. Yeah. He's diehard for Covet Marth. Uh, what what what can you say? So so Crom is is very obstinate. You you learn a little bit about Crom uh in that that chapter. You learn that uh the reason his body or his face at least are encased in his metal mask are is because uh he had I I actually don't think it was injury, but he was essentially implanted with all these robotic or cybernetic parts in his face, and now I think that he can remove the bottom part of his of his mask to to eat. He bites into rats as rats. But yeah. But he's got a lot of cybernetic uh implants to him. He also has a power, uh, which is the power to drain or siphon electricity. We see that in play, spoiler alert, a little bit in the second stage Sherbine Blade comic, but I think this is the first time that gets mentioned in You're the Black Rainbow that he has that power. So we don't see him do it, but we do see that he's in a cell that has no electricity around him. He's being held by an old-fashioned chain. There's light down there, but it's all candlelight, so it's it's very macabre, it's very, very demure. And uh yeah, that we we learned a little bit about him. Did you have something you wanted to bring up about that that bar that part specifically?
SPEAKER_02No, I was just wondering about crom, because again, part of the uh the the pitch of this podcast is that I'm not familiar with the lore. I'm I'm learning it as we go. Like, so I've read these chapters, and I'm just wondering if this this like crom situation comes back again. Like this uh obviously they he doesn't die, so I'm assuming the character comes out uh gets gets out at some point. I don't I don't necessarily want a spoiler alert, but like is he someone that I need to remember?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02Recruit him and then yeah, I I did I did catch that and he was like, fuck that. But yeah, so that's something file this away for later. Crom crom is important, yes?
SPEAKER_01Crom is important, yes.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and then you mentioned the passage at the end of chapter 10, which it's it's kind of like uh I imagine it if it was a movie, it being kind of like a montage of of something. And and the song World of Lines would actually work well for that montage of like seeing potentially press clippings or seeing like action pieces and riots and protests and and Wilhelm Ryan looking uh you know, that that kind of thing. But it talks about how there's rumors abound about what's going on and the resistance, and it's it's a good it's a good chapter that kind of sets up you know the song and what happens in the next chapter. And in the next chapter, you talked about Leonard going back to Joseph's rock and talking to Joseph like he's there, talking to the spirit of Joseph. And there was an ominous line, I thought you're laughing.
SPEAKER_01That's so sad. Blood everywhere Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Larry picked up on it. There's an ominous line that was like, little did he know, like that was the last time or last time we'd be there before there was blood everywhere, or something like that. Or the next time he becomes clear, it would be covered in blood and it would be the last time. But so that that's uh that's another file this way for later. But we kind of we we kind of got into that in the last episode, the sh the Shattered Symphony.
SPEAKER_01Oh, and we'll we'll get into it more in in uh when we get to the flame of air, too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, it's a lot in a little. And Mayo and Leonard's interaction. One thing I noted, because I I just reread the chapter today, in like a series of like two or three pages, Mayo said three times, now we come to it. Now we come to it. Like Leonard asked him a question, like, so why are we why why would I want he why would I do that? And Mayo Mayo's, now we come to it. Did he explain it? So that that to me is now Mayo's catchphrase, now we come to it.
SPEAKER_01That's I like that. I I didn't pick that up, but Mayo has a a flair for the dramatics, certainly. He likes to he likes to emphasize things and he's kind of a diva a little bit. I mean, he wears that that big red trench coat. He's making a statement everywhere he goes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00It's a cool relationship between those two characters. They kind of like mentally fence a little bit in some of the scenes they have in that book.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I feel like with Leonard, because he's in such a frantic state, because his wife is missing and he he's he's realizing that shit's hitting the fan. I I feel like his back is against the wall in those conversations, but he's smart enough. Like in the book, they he he says it in his mind at least that he realizes if he wanted to kill me, he would have just done it. Like there's there's an ulterior motive here, and what is it? And yeah, the the the mental sort of sparring between the two of them is interesting because there is such an arrogance in Mayo and how he he goes about everything. And it's just it's interesting seeing Leonard try to do the mental gymnastics on how to communicate or how to how to work with him and get out with his life and with Pearl's life intact, and hopefully all of humanity.
SPEAKER_01Hopefully. We'll see.
SPEAKER_02On the Monstar Virus Act, you mentioned sort of what it did, but I remember there being lines in the text about like I don't know if it if it was about it infecting men, women, and children, and then like watching them drop dead. But like you had inferred that if the virus was inst installed in the keywork, that the keywork would dissolve or whatever, and that the planets might start smashing into each other, which would be death and destruction. But it seemed to me like like there was there was an element of actual virus in what at least Mayo was saying to to Leonard about potentially like just watching people drop dead one by one. Did you catch that?
SPEAKER_01So so it's not explained really uh in great scientific detail exactly how the Monstar virus would affect the general populace other than cooling the keyword. We know it has, and this is spoil spoiling a tiny bit, I won't go into too much detail from second stage, but we know that it has a direct effect on Koheed in Cambria, specifically Koheed, but uh in in the way that Hohenberger eventually engineers it affects affects both of them. So the Monstar virus specifically kind of really just affects those elements. But mild spoiler alert, that virus goes through some mutations, just like viruses in our real life do. And the uh eventual evolution of that virus does become something that acts more like a classic virus and it infects, you know, uh billions of people upon Heaven's fence. So This version of the Monstar Virus does not, but a more evolved state of it, which we will get to later, uh it does work like that. There's one detail I I kind of forgot to mention about Ryan's demands. In addition to demanding that they create the virus, he also demands that they surrender Koheed and Cambria to Wilhelm Ryan, which implies that he does not know about Inferno. Because he's only asking asking for those two. But that's that's an important element that he wants both the virus and he wants Cohe and Cambria to play a live show for him in his backyard because they're sick.
SPEAKER_02There was another funny line along those lines where when Leonard was talking to Joseph about like this a Coheat and Cambria World's Tour.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh which I thought was interesting.
SPEAKER_01Little on the nose joke.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Directly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a um, there's kind of a few dirty lines in there. It seems like you know, Wilhelm Ryan and um Mayo Deftumolf both like to kind of pull on the like, hey, like we killed your son card. They keep kind of playing that over and over and rubbing it in pretty bad.
SPEAKER_02Rude.
SPEAKER_00And it's kind of funny because um Dr. Hohenberger like has a thought, like, I wish I could rip out his entrails or something like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's right. That's funny. He realized that he could not match strength with him, but that's what he wanted to do. One thing we we kind of brushed over was Pearl, she is now captive, and I wanted to talk about what she's held captive in. And she's she's in what they describe as a glass coffin, which to me made it sound like maybe it's clear, but I guess glass could be tinted. I I don't know, because they also talk about there's like a hole in the glass for her mouth, presumably, to to breathe and to eat and drink.
SPEAKER_00Eating tube or something, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that she's she's hung like in the middle of somewhere in a room that's maybe got a ditch or something below, like a chasm. And we we don't know what's at the bottom, if it's a bottomless pit, or if there's just like Mayo even says this, like it could just be you know, flat ground that she just falls to her death, or there could be uh spikes on there, and she could feel what it's like to be impaled if she was to fall. But like it's a glass coffin held by chains, like held in the air by chains. Zach, like did you imagine it being clear, or is it like more coffin style, like black or brown with a hole in the I've always imagined it being transparent.
SPEAKER_01Um that I I guess that that's just like it it came off as very like I I literally imagine like a crystalline, like that kind of traditional coffin shape with the with the angles on it. Not like a modern coffin that's you know just just just uh uh ornate box, but you know, the one that was kind of more form-fitting to a body because she's she's in it and she can't move around at all.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh she's also, yeah, as you mentioned, she's suspended over what could be a bottomless pit, but it's kind of like hazy. There's lots of like fog beneath her, and it's kind of there's this soft, like maybe blue or yellow light, it sounds like kind of piercing through it. Very eerie. But like it it feels very like just like fantasy, like dark, dark fantasy kind of stuff going on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, psychologically it's it's kind of like messed up because you know, it allows Dr. Homberger to see her in that video, you know, but that's all he can do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's definitely messed up. Wilhelm Ryan is a bit of a you know, asshole to say the least, and some of the things that he does. And the Pearl thing, we'll get into the Pearl thing more. We'll get into the Pearl thing more, I think, in Pearl of the Stars, and we'll get to sort of analyze what goes on in that coffin. But uh it is sort of an interesting, wild way to hold somebody captive, and I just wanted to touch on that a little bit. I think I think we can jump into the music and the lyrics now, unless you guys have any more thoughts on the lore.
SPEAKER_01No, I mean I think that that about covers it for for this one at least. There's definitely some overlap between this one and like the chronological events of this one and and the next song, which is made out of nothing, but I I feel like we've we've we've covered enough of the story, we can get on to the music, unless you have anything anything you wanted to add to it, Larry. Nothing else for me. Cool.
SPEAKER_02Alright, so the the music and the lyrics for this, the music, it's it starts you off right away, driving with this really cool intro that's kind of the whole song in my mind is sort of driven by the bass and the drums. Like they kind of keep the song flowing. And uh the bass is a little bit kind of buried in the mix, at least in the the version that I hear. It's it's not super prominent like some of the other bass lines on this this album, but it does, I really feel, drive the song well. And it starts off with this this intro with the drums doing like this the cymbal Tom, Phil, these little 16th notes, and then the thing is, I think it's a very good thing. It is, it's a fun part. It's it's it's a cool, distinctive thing, and and Chris Penny, he brings back those fills sort of throughout the song. That's kind of like uh the mark of Chris Penny, is he he does things very purposefully and he he brings those th those elements back generally throughout the songs. We've seen it time and time again through these songs that we've been talking about already. And that's that's I think a hallmark of Chris Penny's playing. But anyway, the first verse then hits you. I'm gonna give you the lyrics. This is the hidden truth, the world between the lines, there is no understanding us. These lines have marked divisions, the weaker seek to malign, with this looming precious ending, there's no more room for reprimanding. Oh, when words are lightly thrown, in a world that's caught in a writer's web, humiliation reigns. But you could do it maybe. It it does feel much more like talking about the press, like the more literal version that Claudio described.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I it definitely hits on those feelings of of of protest and and rebellion and you know feeling like like an outsider. But uh there is some stuff that I think is literal in there. And literally when he says, in a world that's caught in a writer's web, that's that's pretty on the nose when when we realize that the Amory Wars is metatextual in a lot of ways, and that the god of this universe is also the writer. I it's tough to me if I if I were to try to put these lyrics into a character's perspective. I feel like it would it's I feel like it would maybe be Ryan. There's a lot there's a lot on this on this album that feels like it's from Ryan's perspective, but it could also be the people of Heaven Spence from just general, you know, the Hohenbergers and the and the KBI and rebellion. But it it it also the the theme of rebellion it fits with Ryan rebelling against God and sort of just constantly rebelling against the design and feeling like he he should be the divine the divine force of the universe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've always kind of wondered myself what is what is the line, you know. Um and kind of trying to think more about it for this, you know, like both of the music videos are kind of about like, you know, there's these there's these like you know, two warring factions or a clear like you know, human android thing, and like maybe that line's in the middle and that's what separates them, and it's kind of about that that struggle of one one to another.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think that's a great way to analyze it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm I'm trying to think like this is the hidden truth, the world between the lines, there is no understanding us. That could be about the KBI, that could be from their perspective, like they are on the rampage right now and they haven't like announced themselves. They're not like like superheroes, they're they're kind of going on in the shadows and leading this resistance. It's sort of the world between between the lines, between like reality and what what is being told to the heavens fence. I mean, there is no understanding us, like you don't know you don't know who we are, basically, like sort of boasting maybe to to Ryan that that they're coming for him. But I I don't know if if there's more to that narrative in general. But the music video Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Musically, uh the song is still I think really being driven by the bass and the drums. And this this feels like also kind of a pattern in this record, is a lot of the guitar playing in the verses is kind of more spicy. He does it the the guitar drives like the rhythm guitar drives the song also, but it's not as like just steady as the bass and the drums. And the drums, like I mentioned, they're at the end of each phrase. Penny goes back to that very similar fill that he did in the beginning of the song to just kind of map it all together. But like you guys are musicians, like any any thoughts on the uh the music in this particular verse?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's badass.
SPEAKER_02True that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that this one's interesting. Um, you know, kind of in in the intro when all the drum stuff was going on, there's kind of that like synth line.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's not a guitar line, you know, and like I think till this day, all the times they played it live, like I don't think people do that part. It's just kind of like it was there on the album, and it's it it's it's it's pretty cool. But then like when when like everything else is kind of there, like it's interesting, it's one of those songs where like you'd maybe listen to it and think Travis is playing kind of that lead line, and it's kind of low on the neck, you know, it's still kind of low frequency a little bit, but it's like no, Claudio's playing that part while he sings, it's got like the open note hammer ons on, it's like you know, the rhythm changes a little bit between the different parts. It's uh it's super interesting that Travis plays the chords, and sometimes those don't even play, and then Claudio's just kind of playing that part. And there's an interesting thing about Claudio's guitar there where it's like dunno no no no no no no, but then there's like a part halfway through where he changes like the rhythm on the note and like doesn't go down and like stays on the one part. So it's it's it's not really like super easy to hear, but like if you listen for it, you'll hear it. And it's just kind of cool when there's a little bit of evolution to the part like that. That's kind of what I think about with this song.
SPEAKER_01Totally. It's a great example of of the real subtle ways that all these players use to just kind of add like dynamics to their to their parts and and make them more interesting. Even within the same verse, they'll change it up sometimes. And I think that it always keeps you on your toes. You always hear something new. That's the fun part about this band. Every time you listen to it, you get something different. There's always something new to latch on to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, actually, I I had some of that that kind of stuff to to talk about in as the song progresses, but it you're already touching on it now, like it's it's perfect. So after the first verse, we have the chorus, and I'll give you guys the lyrics for the chorus. Just leave us a scone. If it's not worth my donut hole, it's strudel. Whoa, whoa.
SPEAKER_01See, this is was that on that hardcore DVD that I that I was talking about earlier?
SPEAKER_02No, that this is this is a bit I do, Larry.
SPEAKER_01It's is it a bit if you have to explain it?
SPEAKER_02Well, I I'm I'm I'm trying to make it a bit, okay?
SPEAKER_01This is this is the bit itself, actually, is is the trying is trying to defend the bit is the bit.
SPEAKER_00Same bit as cold ass winter or different bit? Same bit. Yeah, it's the same bit. It's evolving.
SPEAKER_02Misheard lyric, quote, quote unquote.
SPEAKER_00There's some good ones. I farted three ways. Oh yeah. We'll get there in two years. Spoiler alert, come on.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, the actual lyrics for the chorus. Just leave us alone. If it's not worth the letting go, it's trouble, whoa, whoa. Leave us alone if it's not worth the letting go, it's trouble, whoa, whoa. Double chorus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it makes me think like it could be um from the perspective of like the iRobots, you know, like kind of being different, or or it also makes me think of like kind of the Mage Wars thing that goes on, like the regular public is just like, hey, what the hell? Why are you all doing this? And they're like there's that two-class system and that that eternal struggle kind of a thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's kind of relatable to current things happening in the world right now, I guess. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I kind of looked at it as maybe from Leonard's perspective, leave us alone, like telling Maya and Will and Bryan, leave us alone, literally. If it's not worth the letting go, is maybe him grappling with with is this fight worth me getting into or do I need to just do what they're asking? And it it is literally trouble making the virus and having his wife kidnapped, you know. But I don't know, just a just a thought.
SPEAKER_01I was just gonna say, I I I think that Larry's assessment of it of it being I've I've always associated it being the people of Heaven's Fence kind of rebelling and saying enough is enough, which we've seen before, but it's it's hitting it, you know, reinforcing that that theme.
SPEAKER_02The song the song is very protesty, like in just its overall general vibe. But also, if we want to talk literally, it could be Claudio talking to the press. Leave us alone.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Maybe he's talking to the the creepy fans that that wait outside of their tour bus. Yeah, that's true. He's got other songs about that.
SPEAKER_02We'll have to ask him someday.
SPEAKER_01Maybe he wrote it about you.
SPEAKER_02Probably not, but the the music for the chorus, the the tempo is is still up, still rolling, and and the the whole band is driving now, and there's a there's a cool lead. I don't know, is it a Travis lead? Is that maybe the lap steel in the uh the chorus? And it's it's I I really like that part, and they they bring it back, they bring it back also uh later in the song. But yeah, talk about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh it's interesting because the first chorus, uh, you know, it's like two measures, and the first time it's just both guitars playing those chords, you know, power chords. It's like just super full. And then that lead comes in the second time. Uh it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's one of the best uh maybe maybe my favorite melody in the song. And then when it comes to the second chorus, now it plays both times, and like you said, towards the end, it comes back in on kind of like the outro, but there's like multiple layers, we'll get to that. But uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is Zach, maybe you remember, does this chorus is is the uh those those faint like backups are they in that chorus, or does that not come in till the second chorus?
SPEAKER_01The do do do do like the in this world of lines part? Yeah, yeah, that's that's not till the outro.
SPEAKER_02Well, they you can hear it in one of the choruses very faintly. I was just listening to it on headphones and and it's in there. And I was wondering if it was in there the first verse, but knowing how they build songs, it was probably the second chorus that they bring it in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh you're saying they snuck it in real low.
SPEAKER_02Right, yes, yes.
unknownThat's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01I listened to this song three times before we started this podcast, and I didn't catch that. So another example of those fun things buried in the mix. Headphones matter.
SPEAKER_02Uh second verse here. Second verse, uh typical of Koheed verses, is about half the the size of the first verse. Uh, and the lyrics are communications breaking up, the static cutting the lines, this lying liar's had his turn. You've managed nothing more than a pathetic attempt at attack, but this heart is everlasting, pushing forward, never crashing.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, man. I mean, I dude, it's I don't know that it translates literally to something in the story, but it definitely seems like I mean, communication's breaking up, like it's desperate, they're in a desperate hour, you know, they gotta they gotta make a stand, they gotta make a decision. Uh static cutting the lines. There's a lot of static, a lot of misinformation about what's going on in the universe out there. Uh a lot of propaganda could be the static, the Wilhelm Ryan's propaganda. Uh, but I mean, certainly pushing forward, never crashing, heart is everlasting, that's feels like the will of of the people of the of the KBI and of Kohe and Cambria and their enduring hearts. That's a big theme of this this story, by the way, is love. Love, love conquers all is kind of like the theme that you're the black rainbow.
SPEAKER_00You could you could pull it into uh Hohenberger's perspective too with with that chapter where like the pathetic attempted attack is like you know healing his wife or whatever and saying, Hey, like fuck you, like I'm not I'm not going down like this. I'm gonna trick you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's interesting because I actually took that line as being um Ryan, sort of you know, you manage a pathetic attempted attack. Yeah, it's like fuck you, I'm gonna kidnap your wife.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, KBI goes to some plan and is like, hey, I'm not worried about that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I I I didn't see it from the Leonard perspective the whole way through. But like I think that's the thing. Like, you could kind of probably work either either direction. Like I'm I'm thinking about it now, communications breaking up, the static cutting the lines. That that to me was like Ryan like realizing or getting getting these reports about how his uh his armies are being attacked and being taken out, and his his the static is cutting his lines basically. This lying liar's had his turn. To me, that that is Ryan. That is, I guess, Leonard saying in my mind, or Kohey and Camria being like this we're getting this guy. But like that's the beauty of of these lyrics or Claudio's lyrics when he has the lore in there, is you kind of like it kind of works for the song depending on the perspective you're you're you're thinking of it from, but it it also works in in many different ways depending on how you're thinking of it.
SPEAKER_01You know, the line uh communications breaking up, it reminds me of the line in Cut's mark to the March of Men, where he says this Com Link's lost its frequency, and I feel that we're coming home short. Which also uh like that's not uh something that necessarily literally happens on the pages of the comic book, but you can kind of infer that that was something that happened maybe behind the scenes or off page. So I I think that's the the beauty of getting to digest the music and the story is they're not always you know direct adaptations chronologically, they kind of each tell their own version of of the story. And to get the whole picture, you know, you need to experience both, or or at least reading, reading and listening will will give you a more fulfilling uh overall experience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I'm a uh I'm a systems engineer for communication systems, so I like all any of those references. I always like Koheed's got a few of them scattered around. I'm always like, oh yeah, I'm about that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's interesting things like that. The communications and the com links lost its frequency. This one also mentions this lying liar. Like this, these are other recurring themes in Koheed lyrics and coheed songs that they're little, I don't know if you'd call it an Easter egg or just connective tissue. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I also like the structure, will you be the engineer? That's another good one. That's a cool one. That was thinking uh speaks to you directly. It's a deep one.
SPEAKER_01I was thinking of Delirium Trigger. There's About terror on the intercom. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02All of all those those are all for Larry.
SPEAKER_00I'll take it.
SPEAKER_02So then we get to the second chorus. It's the same the same lyrics in the second chorus, but as we mentioned, the uh the guitar lead comes in at the beginning of of the second chorus. Yeah, by by the end of it, like the second half of the chorus, it it cuts it in half, basically, or like it doesn't go as fast. I don't know how to musically how you would describe that, but that's and and I I swear that those very faint backups, I I I swear those are in there. Go back and listen to it.
SPEAKER_00It could be it could also be um maybe not vocals, but like a background element. I feel like maybe I remember something like that.
SPEAKER_02Maybe it's like a synth element or something.
SPEAKER_00Could be like a synth element that's kind of deep in the mix, and then at the end they bring it back up with vocals.
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah. It's it's definitely more prominent.
SPEAKER_00It's layered, it's atmospheric, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like the whole song it builds and it it layers itself, or it adds layers and texture as the song moves forward. And the chorus where if you're just listening to it and you're driving along or whatever, you might not notice all those things because it is basically the same as the first chorus. It's catchy, it's got the hook, or whatever. But they they do these little musician things that it's the things that keep us coming back and keep us listening over and over again. After the second chorus, we get to the bridge, and the bridge is some really interesting musical stuff going on. The uh the lyrics in the bridge, oh, state your case and go hide. Leave us to your worst. I will never give in to the hurt of your lies, because there is no hope for all of your jokes and your plaguing insecurity. Now I'll play your enemy, the only word you could find for me.
SPEAKER_01I think that that is kind of a defiant stance, maybe from Hohenberger. Uh leave us to your worst, we will never give in to the hurt. Now I play your enemy, the only word you can find for me. That almost feels like Mayo a little bit, kind of taunting, but it could be it could be Mayo, it could be Ryan, it could be Hohenberger. Like it's there's different ways you could interpret that that particular line.
SPEAKER_02So uh the music in the bridge. Larry, tell me tell me about the music in the bridge. Like I I know that the drums, like, to me, there's there's phrases in the bridge, and like it's like the beginning, and then the second part, and then the third part, and then the the the fourth part, and it all is a little bit different, and there's some really ominous feeling stuff in there to me, like really menacing kind of stuff in the bridge.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it kind it kind of darts between like being a little bit more empty. There's like you know, those few kind of power chords that structure the riff, and then like there's all these kind of noodly things they do in between. And they did this a little bit on Black Rainbow where it's like it doesn't even matter what you're playing, you know. Like if you want to cover the song, you can almost put like whatever notes you want there, and it doesn't matter. It's uh, you know, it makes me think of uh uh the shattered symphony and like some of the super dissonant, like weird guitar stuff that like I don't know that they've ever done since then. So yeah, it it's pretty cool um the way that they punctuate those chords with those note fills, and then like towards the end of the riff, I think what you're pulling on, Joel, is like it gets like super sludgy and Synthy with like multiple layers of like that boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yes.
SPEAKER_02100%.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's it they they they layer it up there. Um when I when I play that part live, I uh we we played to uh to click tracks and so we can put like some extra elements that pump out the crowd. I recorded like like guitars like low and high and like pitch shifted them up so like when we play that part, it's like you hear all those extra octaves coming in.
SPEAKER_02I think I use the word menacing and it just it feels thick and intense and and it's just like it always gets me every time I hear it, like that bridge, the the particularly those those those parts of the bridge. And it is you know, I I love how it goes back into the chorus too, because it kind of does like a more of a halftime feel on the bridge, and then it gets it it like that little drum fill that he he gets you back into the uh the full-time chorus. Like it's just uh it's a it's a great, it's a great bridge with a lot of weird stuff going on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's like a really dissonant um kind of like guitar line that leads you in over like that last lyrical moment. Um Travis is playing these these these two notes that like clash with each other and kind of build that tension as it drives back in. These guys know how to write songs.
SPEAKER_02That's your input, Zach.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01That's pretty good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thumbs up. So after uh the bridge, we have the last chorus, and it's more of a traditional double chorus, same lyrics, but the the aforementioned sort of vocal backups and that the potentially synth part, they become more prominent at the end, where it's just sort of like the the lyrics are it goes, just leave us alone, and then this part says, in this world of lines, it's if it's not worth the letting go, and then this part, the strong will decide. And it really it's a nice little call and response kind of kind of deal, and it becomes prominent, and it is uh it is a cool way to end the song.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's it's interesting hearing you say those lyrics out loud because I've always took those, I've always taken those two as as two separate phrases. You know, leave us alone if it's not worth the letting go, because he says that every chorus, but then I the other phrase I've always read is in this world of lines, the strong will decide. Because it's the same voice doing that. But when you say it like that as a call and response, it does make an interesting sentence. Leave us alone in this world of lines, if it's not worth letting go, the strong will decide. Like, huh? That's interesting way to structure that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Any thoughts on the the outro, Larry?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, it kind of depends what version you're listening to. If you looked at it back live, certainly when they did it back in 2010 time frame, I haven't checked the ones that they played after that that you mentioned, uh, Joel. But back then they used to do what I would call, I guess, a live interlude. And Claudio had um just its own unique kind of little guitar line that he played, and it it lasted for two measures, so they kind of extended it. They kind of extended the the song there a little bit. Uh, and and Travis was still playing, you know, because when the outro comes in, there's like the Travis starts playing these arpeggiated, like super reverb-y, delay-y chords. And so, like, all the rhythm guitar drops out at that point where they used to do it this way, and like it was like two cascading leads, which was cool, and then like all the lyrics would come in and stuff. Uh, so if people haven't checked that out, it's a cool little Easter egg.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and maybe I'll find a clip of that.
SPEAKER_00Yes, splice it in here.
SPEAKER_02That sounds pretty neat.
SPEAKER_00It's cool, yeah. And then when when we do it live, um, we do it a little bit different where we keep the song structure the way it is. But I take the arpeggio part that Travis plays, the chorus lead that we talked about before the bouncy chorus lead, and then I put that part in there too. So every time, like every time it goes through new measure, you get another layer and they're all kind of going on. So the the ending of that song is kind of iconic to me, where like all those layers are happening at once.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it is it is a really cool sort of I don't know if you call it an apex, but just like a you know, it brings it all together. So that's that's the song. That's the song and the music and the lyrics. But one thing before we we finish out was I want to talk about the music videos a little bit. There's two pretty cool music videos for this song. And I know Zach Zach had mentioned to me the one so Zach, which one came first? Was it was it the the short film version first?
SPEAKER_01I I can't remember off the top of my head now. I want to say the short film version came first. Lair, you're nodding. You seem like you agree with that.
SPEAKER_00No, I'm I'm I'm I wasn't I was agreeing with I'm not sure that you said. Oh, not sure, okay.
SPEAKER_02It feels to me, it feels to me like that one would have been the first one because that one looks feels more like an official music video, like something they'd play on on the I was gonna say on MTV, but probably not on MTV.
SPEAKER_00Which one which one are you talking about, Joel?
SPEAKER_02The short film, the one that's like seven minutes and has all of the dialogue and the the band's not in the band's not in either of them. Yeah, and Zach, you had said in a previous episode that those three characters are supposedly Koheed Camria and Jesse.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I mean that's that's certainly my interpretation, and and it it seems like they're that that that seems like what he's what he's trying to extract there, but it's it's kind of a reimagined version of the KBI if they were teenagers on Earth. And you know, they they have this kind of outsider's story in the beginning of the video, starts off kind of hauntingly with like these interviews of these, you know, it it seems like they're you know, these kids that are about to go into this uh like a like a like a test or or what's the word like an experiment type of thing, social experiment. And they're saying things like, Well, yeah, I don't know, like I don't know how they're gonna react, but I hope they love us. I love them. Yeah, it seems like they're excited to join. We don't know what they're joining, it turns out they're joining society, but so right off the bat, very, very eerie vibes, and actually the the music behind that is the music for one before it kicks into World of Lines.
SPEAKER_02And then they bring that back later in the video too.
SPEAKER_01They they do, yeah. And when the actual song World of Lines kicks in, it's kind of cool cinematography, you know, they're they're driving an old car around, and it's like very scenic. Like it's like teenagers getting into trouble driving a car, and there's these like kind of antagonistic jock characters that uh obviously don't like them, and then there's kind of like a forbidden love thing going on between one of the characters. Uh he says something earlier where he's like, I don't know what I I've heard all this stuff about romantic love and I want to experience it myself, which that feels very, you know, kind of like to me, all these characters kind of feel like they're like the childlike versions of Koheed Cambria in Inferno. They're it's easy to forget that these characters are like less than one year old. They're all uh in in the Amory Wars, that is, you know, they're all recently artificially created and you know, they're they're children, really, is is is what they are. But they're adult bodies and accelerated aging, but they're still children that are naive and have not experienced the world yet. And I feel like that's represented here in these in these teenagers. But there's a there's some tension where, like I just said, one of them falls in love with uh a girl who is uh part of that social circle of greaser type guys, and they greasers like that. They got they got leather jackets, they're pulling out pocket knives and shit.
SPEAKER_02Like they did, they definitely had a pocket knife, so they definitely had pocket knives, but I did not think of them as greasers. It's not like it's not like the Fawns.
SPEAKER_01Well, that that's what I got out of it, but I mean anyway.
SPEAKER_02It seemed like asshole jocks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, asshole asshole jock kids is what it was. But they they the the jocks they they threaten the iRobots, is what I'm gonna call them, and and say like stay away from us. Like they call them freaks and shit. They throw shit at them, they tag their cars and are just general fucking assholes to them. But they warn I think his name's is his name Jazz or Chaz? I can't remember the the character's name, but the the one who I think is is kind of like the representative of Koheed, they warn him like stay away from from our girl. And he does not stay away from her. For stay away from her and he does not stay away, and they corner him, they corner them at the top of like a overlook type thing overlooking the city. And you know, very it's it's it it's interesting because it's a pretty low budget music video, all things considered. Uh obviously they had to pay for the actors and you know they had to write a script, and there's some like prosthetic effects or or practical effects they do because when they the climax of this is uh the the co the the young Kohe is what I'm gonna call him. He uh he gets cut up by these asshole jocks. They pull out their pocket knife and they literally like stab him uh and they rip up they rip out his insides, and it's very brutal. You're like, oh wow, these teenagers are just killing this other teenager, but inside they're very much machine. They've got like robotic arms and wires and stuff, and they sever their legs and actually kind of reminds me of Sizer now. But this version of of the Irobots is much more like Terminator, like they're they're robots on the inside and just a little flesh and skin on the outside. Whereas in the context of the Amory Wars, the iRobots are more like replicants, they're artificially created organic beings. They don't necessarily have metal endoskeletons, although Koheed's got some metal in him, but that's that's specific to him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So that video it's an interesting choice for the band because it is more of a long-form story. I I wonder what their their plan or what the goal of that video was. It is cool because it's different than everything else that they've done, and it does kind of standalone on its own. But they also had a second music video for this song, and it was just the song itself. But it's it's all footage from an old black and white film. I believe it was a silent film. Zach, you've talked about this before with me. What what movie is that?
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's Metropolis, uh, 1927. Yeah, I love that film. It's a German film. Yeah, 100 years old. Almost 100 years old. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_00Uh I love one of the best movies of all time, right?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yeah. Uh it's one of the most influential sci-fi operatic movies. It's it's a crazy film.
SPEAKER_02It looks insane just in those clips. And you said 1927, 100 years ago, even the effects in that the the clips I thought were really awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's an incredible film, absolutely groundbreaking for its for its time. Uh, from what I understand, and and I didn't do research on the film before we did this, but I've I've read about it before. I feel like it wasn't very successful at its time, or like like many of those films were, like it was kind of pan, people didn't really like it. It was seaton is like too far out there. Yeah, people didn't know. But and if you look at like the robot design in that, that's absolutely the the inspiration behind things like C3PO and you know modern robots that we use in science fiction today. There's all these like Tesla coils and stuff going on in it. And I think what's interesting is there is this there's a connecting theme between both those music videos, which are not just robots, but also you know, feeling like the other, feeling like the outcast, not misunderstood by society. And obviously that ties back into what Claudio has has talked about, the themes of this song, anyway. So I feel like the theme of the song is represented in two very different ways. I love that Claudio gets to kind of showcase his love of being a film buff with this one. And we talked about on Devon's podcast, Devin, the uh Goddard and Gazette, not never enders Devon, although all Devons matter. Yeah, many important Devons in the Koheed universe. Um we talked about we do need more Joels than Zachs. That's that's right. Well, there's there's a few Zachs in the Koheed universe. We need more Joels.
SPEAKER_02But I'm fine being the one.
SPEAKER_01The only Joel. If we find any other Joels out there, you know what you have to do.
SPEAKER_00Get out the box I just sing.
SPEAKER_01I was talking about oh, Claudio loving silent films and bring that out because he does a similar music video for Deranged using The Man Who Laughs, which is another really cool silent film. But yeah, Metropolis, amazing film. If you've not watched it, go watch it. It's it's awesome. It's gonna blow your mind. If you have any sort of appreciation for film or history, it's it's a really, really cool thing. And I think it's only an hour and a half long. So definitely put that on your radar and then go watch this music video again to appreciate it more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've I forgot about the Metropolis video. But yeah, I think both of them kind of pull on that. You know, there's a theme of like, you know, Android versus human or you know, two two parties who have misunderstandings with like each other that end up fighting each other or whatever. But the one thing that it also makes me think of, um, certainly the the the long form music video is, and I think Claudia's talked about this before, but like, you know, uh his love for like the alien franchise or alien movies, and like it kind of pulls some of that same stuff with like Android versus human and like Bishop some of that same iconography and uses it um in kind of that long form video. So that that to me, Alien's my favorite franchise. So that you know, I just I I kind of really enjoyed that aspect. Um, and then also with the long form video thing that's cool is it's a unique arrangement of that song that doesn't exist anyplace else, the way that they stitch extra parts on or feature certain things that are buried in the album you can't really hear. Totally parts. Pretty unique, yeah. Yeah, super cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think both videos are a very good interpretation of the song. Or they're they're the song works well in both both videos, and it's neat that they they actually made two videos because World of Lines I think I love the song. We all seem to love the song. I don't know where it ranks in the fandom, like if fans are really into the song or not, but I think Claudio must have liked it because he he had these two visions in his mind. Actually, I don't know if he had the vision for the long form. I'm sure he must have, but that is cited as written and directed by somebody named Lex Hal Hallaby, I think the name was. I don't know if that's a male or a female or what, but uh Lex Hallaby was was accredited as written and uh directing that video. But I'm sure Claudio had some influence on it. And yeah, just the song works great in both those videos. So we've gone on. This is the longest episode yet. Thank you, Larry. Uh but to close it out, I wanted to once again shout out the pre neverender festival show. I was gonna call it a party because it's gonna be a party vibe, yo. Never ender festival official pre-party featuring the never enders, Joey Eppert, the killing floors, and it also says fun games and cosplay. I don't know what Zach's gonna dress up as, but can't catch him there.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna go as Ambelina. Oh my god or am I or are we gonna leave the main? Who knows what version of Ambolina we're doing?
SPEAKER_02Well so if you want to see that.
SPEAKER_00We actually Joel um we announced another show today the night before that.
SPEAKER_02Um oh that's right in San Diego right?
SPEAKER_00San Diego October 1st at the Kensington Club with uh we're playing with two two local bands Sleep It Off and Stealing Automatics and uh are you guys doing uh second stage there also yeah my my guess is the set lengths will not allow us to do everything we have so I think there's gonna be you know you're gonna get second stage both nights the question is what other songs do you get? I think it'll be different both nights.
SPEAKER_02So that is kind of like a nice live rehearsal for the the pre-show party.
SPEAKER_00Yeah that was the plan. Yeah we didn't want to get get the get that stuff out of the way in San Diego.
SPEAKER_02Get the bugs worked out in San Diego in Evan's hometown. But yeah so so check them out Thursday October 1st in San Diego and then Friday night October 2nd the official pre-show party at Alex's bar in Long Beach. Zach and I will be at that one for sure. We're not gonna make it to San Diego unfortunately but if you want to come say hi to us we'll be there. And Larry of course will be there performing on stage and uh Larry we just want to thank you so much for coming on and and spending this time with us. And you offered some really cool insight and I knew you would because you got that super musician's brain that engineer's brain you know so we we we just really appreciate it and uh we'll we'll love to have you on again uh on a future episode.
SPEAKER_00Yeah no I I appreciate you all having me on uh huge fans of what you guys are doing and uh yeah Joel from the moment I met you I knew you were a great guy you got that really super positive energy and glad uh we had the chance to meet and can become friends and we'll see if we can figure out how to do some jams while we're in California. Some Kohe jams.
SPEAKER_02Hell yeah dude I I could see Zach smiling when you said that Zach's like Joel super positive like what? Well Zach's just known me for too long and just just wait Larry uh you know I become cynical and I forgot to mention this at the top of the episode but Zach also released a new song and it's out I believe now on all streaming platforms or it should be it's called Kids. Zach if you want to talk about it real briefly uh we'll we'll splice in an intro so you can talk more in depth about it.
SPEAKER_01But yeah Kids is out now yeah yeah uh so that's that's cool. So Joel so Joel's in my band. We're called Zach Fenny and Friends it's real real original like Rick Spinkfield and Friends as we discovered on Devin's episode he's got one of those too but um it's this song does not sound like Koheed. It does I don't know if you like bands like Jimmy World or The Midnight or The Killers it kind of sounds like that. It's kind of an indie pop but definitely sort of nostalgic alternative 2000s rock inspired it's a it's a fun song. I had a lot of fun a lot of fun writing it recording it with her band. Joel plays drums I play guitar and sing. Our guitar player Nick is also a huge coheat fan too and I think that a lot of the riffs he writes are very claudio inspired sometimes. But yeah that would that would have come out at the beginning of the month uh so by the time this is released it it will have been actually sorry it will have dropped on September 11th so by the time this has come out it'll be released for about 10 days or so. But yeah that's that's called kids. I wanted to mention one more thing kind of cool kind of tangentially coheed related this week I had the pleasure of seeing an amazing post-hardcore band called Quicksand and they are a band that is uh I don't I actually admittedly got in them kind of recently like the last couple years we saw them open for refused but we Joel and I have kind of a funny story about them uh which is that when we got went to meet them when we sorry when we meant to meet Koheed in Cambria when we got the mage VIP to go see them on their summer tour last year we were in uh we were on the East Coast that time and I want to say North Carolina or South Carolina. Joel really wanted to to impress them and he and he wore he wanted he didn't want to wear a coheed shirt because everyone was going to wear a coheed shirt. He wanted to wear a shirt of a band he thought that they would like so he chose a quicksand shirt because quicksand's like an OG hardcore band from New York and he was like yeah they're they're gonna appreciate that and as we were waiting in line he you know I was like they're not gonna fucking say anything about your shirt man I was I was being negative and then sure enough we get in line and Zach Travis and Josh all say yo sick shirt dude to Joel and I was like fuck that was wrong.
SPEAKER_02This is a proven strategy that Zach has now emulated because he wore a quicksand shirt at the uh more recent meet and greet we did but on on the cruise I wore a piebald t-shirt when I did the picture with them and everybody Claudio included they all were like oh dude pie bald that's sick and then we we did another VIP this year and I wore a GetUp kids t-shirt and everybody not Claudio this time but everybody else was like hey yeah you know so if you want to stand out wear a shirt from a band not that you like per se but a band you think they might like and then that's a conversation starter.
SPEAKER_01Anyway well that was that I saw Quicksand they're amazing new record is great you should check it out it's called Bring on the psychics uh it's one of my favorite post-hardcore records put out in recent memories so that's all I want to say about that.
SPEAKER_02You can hear Zach talk about that on his Quicksand podcast coming out next week. The Quicksand Chronicles all right well again thank you guys very much this has been the Kohee Chronicles episode six and uh we're taking off.