The Coheed Chronicles
Unofficial fan created podcast exploring the music & lore behind every track in Coheed & Cambria's catalog.
The Coheed Chronicles
Episode 007: Made Out of Nothing (All That I Am) w/ special guest DEVIN FROM GODDER DAMM GAZZETTE!
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Another special guest! This week we grabbed the homie Devin from the OG Coheed podcast - The Godder Damm Gazzette - and brought him on to help us break down track 8 from Year of the Black Rainbow: "Made Out of Nothing (All That I Am)" [NOT "all that you are" lol - listen and find out]. Devin brought some tremendous insight and really positive energy, we loved talking to him about all things Coheed.
In this episode we talk about the desperation of Leonard as he considers what to do and finally comes to his decision. We also discuss the epic simplicity of this song, how it works so well thematically.
Hope you enjoy episode 7!
So mom, please come shelter me to if you said that like if chat GPT said that was the Koheed line, I would absolutely believe it.
SPEAKER_00Welcome everybody to the Koheed Chronicles. This is episode seven for the song Made Out of Nothing, All That You Are. And my name is Joel. We have Zach here as always, but we are blessed with a special guest this week. We are here with none other than the host of the God or Damn Gazette. This is our friend, our new friend. He had us on his podcast. We have him on ours. This is Devin.
SPEAKER_05Hey guys, how's it going? What's up, Devin? Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00It's going good, man. We're really happy to have you here. You are a prominent member of the Koheed internet community. And thank you for you know joining us on this journey that we're on, trying to get through all the songs.
SPEAKER_01Heck yeah. And I'm so excited to be here for this song. I hate to do it to you right off the bat, but uh I think the song name is Made Out of Nothing, All That I Am.
unknownYou're right.
SPEAKER_01What did you say?
SPEAKER_00I said all that you are. Uh oh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So you did the misheard lyric before you even got there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I I didn't write that down on my format. I just wrote made out of nothing, but I I felt like there was more to it, and I just I I guess I riffed, and Devin called me out. Thanks, bro.
SPEAKER_01Listen, it was a close guess. You were close.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So anyway, Devin, before we get into the song, I wanted to talk a little bit about you and who you are and what you do. And first thing is the God or Dam Gazette. I Zach and I were in Denver in 2024, was it, Zach, for Prize Fighter Inferno? And I think that's that's when I discovered that there was a Koheed podcast, and I feel like it was called All Things Coheed or something, something similar to that. And I started trying to listen to the old episodes, and then I saw there was this rebrand, and you were relaunching as the Goddard Damn Gazette. Am I remembering this correctly? Is this is this all true? Did you have a previous podcast and then then you kind of relaunched as the Goddard Damn Gazette?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so all things Koheed uh ran for like five years, and there were a lot of people that put a lot of work into that podcast, and uh just over time, you know, things happen, life happens, people happen, and it just made sense to kind of break away from that and kind of do my own thing. And uh I I I tried to keep this more objective and news-based, but then the episodes themselves are like, you know, discussion. You guys know you were on an episode.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and it was a lot of fun. Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's uh one of the things I like about your podcast, and you even it's called the Gazette, like it's a newspaper, and all of your your presence on Instagram is like, hey, here's the the new edition, or here's like the front page news, or whatever. It's kind of like a nice collection of the co-heed news of the day or of the hour or of the week or whatever. Uh and it it branches off into side projects into other things, sort of just any kind of periphery co-heed sort of stuff. And it's it's a really nice sort of one-stop shop if you really want to be on top of everything that's happening. And I think even your podcast like that, it's it's it's a loose format of just like kind of co-heed discussion, co-heed news, co-heed album breakdowns. Like you kind of you kind of touch all the things, and it's it's uh if you're a Koheed fan, in my mind, it's like a must-listen.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. And he's got some really great interviews on there too. Uh, we talked a little bit on the Goddardang Gazette about your episode your interview with Peter from Kawanashi and how that was very uh inspiring to me to check out and dive deeper into their catalog. And I just want to thank you for again for shedding light on so many cool people and elements of the Koheed and adjacent fandoms. What you do, I think, is really special.
SPEAKER_01Well, thanks, guys, and uh a little tidbit for y'all, um, you know, as as you discuss the concept on this podcast, uh, the name Goddardam Gazette with the typo is actually pulled directly from the Good Apollo Volume 1 comics. It was an error that was left in from rags, and I was like, you know what, that has to be one of the names. And people voted on the name, and and that was what ultimately was chosen. But it is so serendipitous that it was like directly from the comics.
SPEAKER_05I love that. That's so cool. It's so deep cut, like only only the the the nerds really get it, but like it it it strikes to uh to the inner, you know, Koheed Amory Warriors love and all of us for all that that Easter egg stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's really kind of a perfect name for what you've morphed it into, sort of the newspaper, the news, like that that whole thing is is really cool. And so moving forward, Devin, I I listen to your pod and I hear you talk about music, and you're gonna come on here and talk about music, but I I know you've said you're a drummer, but you have a distinct, in my mind, a musical ear. You talk about guitar stuff, you talk about bass stuff, and like I'm curious about what your musical background is as a musician.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, yeah. So uh I started playing drums in like grade school, and then I was on marching band and you know gave it the old let's start a band with like so many people that I met in in college and everything, and we'd rehearse one time, be like awesome, let's do it again, and then never do it again. Um But my dad is a bassist and he's in bands and he plays shows and you know does gigs and uh just kind of like watching him play and then also listening to him talk about music was very inspiring to me to like listen out to all the parts and the motifs and you know the the reel behind the songs. Um so like that just kind of stayed with me growing up, and my love for music continued, and you know, just seeing shows, just seeing shows and like watching the music come alive is is so inspiring, so so incredible. It's like how can you not be in awe of everything that goes on?
SPEAKER_00Hell yeah. And uh actually our origin stories, you and I are sort of similar. I I also played drums in grade school and then was in the marching band in high school. What did you play in marching band, by the way? Which drum or drums?
SPEAKER_01Oh, they they had me on the bass drum until my final year when I finally got to play the snare, and I try I I swear I looked at the quad, and my band director said, No, absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00Man, the the bass drum though, low-key, everyone looks at that as like a uh like oh, this is uh the beginner part or whatever. But like when you're in a marching van with like multiple bass drums, like getting those parts right and like whatever drum you're playing, and like only hitting those notes and like keeping the beat, like that's that's hard stuff. And not to mention those things are giant and marching around with those, like you know, I you'll you'll hear no shade for me. I played the bass drum also, and it's it's not easy.
SPEAKER_01That that well, that was the thing, is I'm I'm a bigger guy, so you know that was my designated role, and I was like, Can I please play something else? Uh but so my my band director was actually a twin, and his twin worked at my wife's school, and my wife was in their pep band, but she is a singer, not a not a uh percussionist. So she was they had her playing drums, and I went to one of the games and she's like, You want to play? So I got to play for both twins. So that is uh that is something that I have under my belt.
SPEAKER_05That's that's hilarious. I didn't know that you and your wife were from the same town. That's really cool. So you you went to different high schools, but obviously you you've on the did you find each other before or after that? And and how did your your love of coheat and music concert loving spread between that? I know we talked a little bit about on on your podcast, but I just I love that story, and I and and uh I think you know listeners would be curious to hear about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh she and I lived in the same town for a little bit, and then she moved to a town called Port Jefferson, which is actually home to Voodoo Studios, where the Deer Hunter records Hail the Sun, uh, Nova Charisma. So, you know, that was like a really cool thing to, you know, to be around. And yeah, we just you know, she went to like the Jonas Brothers was her first concert. And then I her like first real gig uh was my dad's favorite artist, Butch Walker. And we just had such a such a blast that you know it was like, okay, we're going to another concert. You wanna come? And and she just tagged along and you know, I tried to push Koheed, and you know, my selection of songs wasn't really what what she would have picked. Uh so it took her a little bit to to get on the coheed wave, but you know, now she's a a full-fledged child of the fence. But yeah, definitely more into the the heavier music. Her her big band at the time was Green Day. So there there was one time I set my ringtone to a Green Day song before we started dating, and I like had her text me, and then my ringtone went off at a really awkward moment that it shouldn't have been going off in front of a bunch of people, and you know, it's always been there.
SPEAKER_05The music has always been present. Those were the days, man. Back when we used to put whole songs as our ring or as our ringtones, the 2000s were an incredible time.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. So you've talked about a couple bands, Devin, but I'm curious. Besides Koheed, we know you love Koheed, and I know you're a big Kananashi guy in Hail the Sun, Hail the Sun, Hail of the Sun. I show so much I know about these these hipster cool bands. But uh I'm curious, what other bands do you like? And then also like the whole lore part of this, is there any other like fiction that you like, any other works of books or movies or things that like really inspire you that you're a big fan of?
SPEAKER_01Oh man, yeah. So I'm I'm actually a pretty big Smash and Pumpkins fan. I I just love the depth of music that exists under their catalog. Uh, you know, you you get things from like lo-fi acoustic pop to metal bangers, very akin to Koheed. I really like this. They're a local band from Brooklyn and New Jersey, rest assured. They they don't really play super often, but when they do, I I try to like go back to New York to see them. And then honestly, an artist that I think everyone should check out is uh Shesky, Shesky Ramos. He's um currently playing in Co-Defendence, but his solo material, specifically the album The One Man Band, broke up. That is a phenomenal record. And uh I saw him because Weird Science was doing a show and uh he happened to be opening, and he was actually like sick, like he had some kind of like throat thing going on. And to balance that out, he stood on a chair and tried his best to project the entire show, and I was like, wow, what a what a dedication to the craft, like what what a what a monster of a performer. And you know, I've seen him from uh playing in a barber shop to you know playing you know massive stages. So uh it's it's just been definitely an artist I I'd recommend, or I try to recommend to everybody.
SPEAKER_05That's awesome. I've never heard of that person, but I'm definitely gonna check that out now. Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_00What about uh works of fiction or uh books or movies, Devin?
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. Okay, yeah. Uh so I'm actually I'm looking at a stack of video games right here. My favorite video game of all time it would have to be Bioshock, the the original Bioshock. Um it just it just changed my entire view of like what a narrative is and what it could be, and how storytelling doesn't have to be like this linear thing, especially with the audio diaries. I think that's the that's like the most interesting part of the game is you're finding out a story that has already happened in such a like menial way, like you're just interacting with a with a collectible, but then the the voice acting is so strong, and you kind of get invested in these characters that you know are long gone, but their story is so enticing that you like need to find all of them. And then, of course, uh the the more mainstream I love Star Wars. I just absolutely love it. Like from the live action to the animated to the canon to the legends, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I'm I'm here for it. You and me both, Devin, we could talk we could probably start our own separate Star Wars podcast because uh I am I I'm so deep into it, like all the comics, all the books, all the animated live action stuff. I've I've been you know fully fully invested in it as it sounds like you are. Uh well that's that's cool. And Bioshock is such a great atmospheric video game, and you're totally right about the narrative structure of it, how like the whole so much of that game is picking up the pieces of the the story that happened before, and it's just kind of just dripping with atmosphere and you know tension. Uh it's such a beautiful game. I'm ashamed to say I didn't play it until uh later in life. I don't think I'd played it till like maybe after 10 years after it had already been ra been out, but what an incredible game. I'm I'm just mad that I slept on it for so long.
SPEAKER_01Have you played um the it's uh kind of like a spiritual successor? Yeah, a game called Prey, but the 2017 version.
SPEAKER_05I have not, but I have heard of it, and I may get around to playing that soon, possibly next year. I'm kind of weird. I I like I read, I watch, and I play things when when they're celebrating milestone anniversaries because there's so many things to keep up with all the time. I'm like, if something I feel like is really great and it it exists in the zeitgeist for a long time, I'll I'll I'll check it out on its you know 10-year anniversary and see how it's doing then. So we're coming up on that for prey. I'll probably put that on my list for next year.
SPEAKER_01It absolutely I I think if you enjoyed Bioshock, it it hits the similar notes. It's way more sci-fi in that there's like aliens and outer space, but the the immersive sim of it all is is really appealing. So I hope I hope you play and I hope you enjoy it.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, man. I appreciate that. Yeah, we we could start our own Star Wars and video game podcast. Joel loves Star Wars too, but but Joel, you're not as big of a well, you are a video game person, but you're probably not into the same types of video games, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm sitting here like Bioshock and Prey. No, I I'm I'm considering playing uh or replaying Donkey Kong Country on my Nintendo Switch, Super Nintendo uh version.
SPEAKER_05Joel's a Nintendo diehard. Yeah, Kyle loves awesome though. He loves Mario Kart, he loves Zelda, he loves Donkey Kong.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Donkey Kong is my spirit animal, basically. I have a couple more questions for Devin, but I think Zach had a question he wanted to ask before I get into my my wrap-up question with Devin.
SPEAKER_05I did. So another shared interest, Devin, I think we that you and I have, and so do many of the COTF, is uh merch collecting. I wanted to ask you about this on your podcast, but this is the one I said I'm gonna save until you're on ours because give the listeners a little hook to bring him in. But obviously, you have your own Instagram page about your Koheed merch collections. And I was just wondering, one, I guess three three three questions tied into this, but how did you, you know, get into it seriously? Obviously, you know, everyone gets their first one, but like what made you think like I'm gonna get all of it? What's your most prized possession if you had to pick one? And is there a white whale out there that you still don't have that you're like, one day I need that and my collection will be complete?
SPEAKER_01Oh man, so this all started because I joined a group of people, friends, children of the fence, collectors that uh, you know, I they were they were at my wedding, you know, like these are I would consider my my brothers, and uh they kind of embraced me into the fandom, and they had their collection pages first, and they were like, hey, like you have some cool stuff, you know, you should post it. And I was like, heck yeah, you know, that's such a cool thing. I'll I'll get on that. And I did, and then I started following Hail of the Sun, so I have my own collection page for them, and it just says now, you know, I have spreadsheets, and it it's it's just really what it came down to was a way for me to track and catalog everything and also share that with others because I know as a collector it's like there's this one shirt from this one tour, and I can't seem to find a picture of it. I hope that through throughout time, every once in a while, my page can like provide that reference for people, you know. And the the prize possession thing is is really hard. I think it might be the first CD that I got from Koheed because it just like represents such just like a moment in time, and I lost the case for it, but I got Travis and Claudio to sign it at Comic-Con, and it's just like it's just a cool, like, you know, not insane piece, but an insane piece that I do really appreciate is probably a test pressing for the color before the sun. It's my favorite record, and I received that because I made the cape for Travis's Fire Deuce attire, and they sent that as a gift. I was expecting a Fire Deuce test pressing, but they sent the color before the sun instead.
SPEAKER_05So that was like that's so cool. That's awesome. Yeah, I was like, oh my gosh. Before your your white whale, what was the what was your first CD that you got by them?
SPEAKER_01It was No World for Tomorrow. Um hell yeah. And it just uh the the running free just just spoke to me. The rest of the album kind of didn't, so I I think I had it in my CD player and I tossed the the case and the booklet. And uh when I was cleaning out the CD player, because we all moved to digital, and then I ended up going back into vinyl and CD, it's infuriating. But uh I was like, oh, I'll keep the CD because I ended up appreciating the music more than when I initially got it.
SPEAKER_05Do you know if your No World for Tomorrow CD was the paper sleeve or was it the digipack that folded out? It was the digipak. Nice. So that was the real version, the deluxe version.
SPEAKER_00The real version.
SPEAKER_05I had I had the Walmart version, the paper sleeve, because that was what I could acquire at the time when it came out in 07.
SPEAKER_00That means it was probably clean, also.
SPEAKER_05It was, yeah. So it was like, you're you're a well, what the hell? You're uh it's like no room for another, just this bad mother, leave a long trail of nothing. So that's amazing, though. No no world CD goes hard, man. So do you have do you have a white whale, one that you're still searching for that you're like, if I just had that, I'll be content in life?
SPEAKER_01Right now it's really frustrating because it it's something really recent, but it's the uh uh elite boom release of the New World for Tomorrow comics. It's a red foil uh variant of the hardcovers and each of the issues, and it comes with a sketch cover. I got the silver, I got the gold, I got all the other like common variants, but like all of those together was cheaper than the red foil box set. Crazy, yeah. So it was just like an unjustified, and it was right after the cruise, and it was just like dang. So that's that's like the big thing. Uh but the small thing, and I I say that with a pun intended, uh, is a Japanese sampler for second stage turbine blade on a mini CD. And my dad is going to Japan in like two weeks, and I already sent him pictures, and I was like, look for this. Please look for this.
SPEAKER_05That's cool. Wow. You know, I just learned it. I just learned recently because I I got into cassette collecting pretty recently. I got a I got our authentic Sony Walkman, and I've been beefing out my cassette collection, which was inspired by Koheed. You know, we'd go to the VIP shows, you'd get the demo cassette, and for years I was like, I these are cool, you know, they they were on my shelf, but I had nothing to play them on. And I'm also the type of collector that likes to I like to listen to my stuff when I get it. So I was like, you know what? I want to get I want to get a Walkman, I want to listen to these cassettes. And then of course that spurred me into getting more. But I realized when I was looking for albums that albums like Good Apollo Volume 1, for example, came out on cassette in Asian markets, specifically like in Indonesia in uh Malaysia, like officially. And I'm like, wow, holy cow, I had no idea these existed, so I'm on the hunt for those right now. I uh I wanted to share with you one of my personal prize possessions. I don't know if you're looking at the at the video here, but I have great layer podcast. Yeah, I the my one one of my prize possessions I got within the last couple years, but it's You're the Black Rainbow on vinyl, signed by the band at the time. So of Course, that's Claudio, Travis, Mike, and Chris. And this was the last of the mainline records that I was holding out to get for a long time just because it was so expensive, it was so hard to find. And I was so thrilled that I found a signed copy. I got one at I got it on Facebook Marketplace. But it was special to me too because they recorded this album right down the street from where I went to school in Pasadena. So it's just it's really cool to think like they were making this while I was studying or not studying, just like I did today.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, that's awesome. You get Big Bang Theory and Year of the Black Rainbow. Yep.
SPEAKER_05And and Turbinator.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. So before we before we get into the the meat of this episode, I wanted to ask Devin the thing that he asks everybody because I'm curious. Devin, what's your favorite Koheat album, your three favorite Koheed songs, and how did you get into Koheed and Cambria?
SPEAKER_01Oh man, those questions sound eerily familiar. So my favorite Koheat album for so long it's been the color before the sun, so I want to say that. But honestly, recency bias has not left the father of make-belief. That record is so strong, and the new entities just add so much.
SPEAKER_05It's really annoying how much I like that record. I uh I understand completely. We both agree that's like the band operating at peak performance levels of musicianship.
SPEAKER_01It it's it's ridiculous, and there's so many uh motifs and references and uh reprises from earlier works, some subtle, some some in your face, some referencing their live versions of songs. It's just uh it's everything I love about Koheed in a record. But yeah, I I don't know. I have to maybe give it another year before I can definitively say that it, you know, it it's held, but I don't know. I I don't foresee it really uh leaving. But also The Afterman is so good. Listening to that in preparation for the stuff later this year is like, oh my gosh. What about your uh your three favorite songs? Okay, so Island number one, hell yeah, Rise Nyanasha number two, Radio Bye Bye number three, but honorable mention to Away We Go. I love that song.
SPEAKER_05That's a solid collection of different Kohi choices. I love that.
SPEAKER_01And then uh I got into them through a little game called Rock Band, and I was looking for the hardest song to play, like on the DLC songs, and it had like the devil face for the guitar parts, and I was like, I can do this, and I couldn't do it actually. It's it's really I don't think to this day I can I can do actually maybe if I gave it a an actual try, I could I could probably pull it off anyway. Yeah, that song really uh it called out to me, and I went and picked up the album and I didn't like the rest of it. And uh so I I just kind of slept on them for a few years, and then I had some iTunes money in my account, and the Afterman uh Ascension was the iTunes album of the week. So I think it was discounted, it was like six bucks or seven bucks, six ninety nine. And I was like, yeah, that that Koheed group, I remember that name. Screw it, you know, got a $25 gift card. This is a this is a drop in the bucket, and uh I didn't like that album either, except for the acoustic songs, the demo for Afterman, Goodnight, Fair Lady, and the bonus track uh The Homecoming. And I think I like Subtraction too, but even that had too many effects for me. That was that was too outside of my my brainscape. And then uh yeah, I just sat on those songs, and one day coming home from school, I had my music on shuffle and Vic the Butcher came on, and I was about to quit band because I was just like over drumming, I was just over that whole thing, and and that that song like was like, oh, drums can be sick, actually. I don't need to I don't need to be in like playing these boring people, like drums can be ridiculous, and then it just kind of opened the way to everything else because Vic the Butcher has the chance, it has like the weird sounds in it, it goes into it it leads you into something else. And I was like, oh, actually there's something here that I missed before, and now we're here.
SPEAKER_05That's awesome. That's one of those songs, like mini Koheed songs, but there's so many layers to that song. You pick something new up every time in the mix that you go back to listen to that song. And I remember having that. I I had been a Koheed fan for a long time when that song came out, but I I just remember having that like rediscovery process every time I listen to Vic the Butcher. It's like, oh, there's something new. There's a harmony I didn't pick up before. Like, and you get that a lot, but I that one always sticks out to me. So yeah, it's it's funny. You look you liked all like the softer uh and I don't want to say poppy, I mean running for you is pretty poppy, but you you like the softer, more intimate Koheed songs, uh, and then you love Vic the Butcher. And if that's not love for Koheed in a nutshell, I don't know what it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so the Vic the Butcher is awesome, by the way. Oh, I'm looking forward to that at the uh the never-ender stuff. And yes, drums also can be cool, they can be very cool.
SPEAKER_05Oh heck yeah. You you keep telling yourself that, Joel.
SPEAKER_00And then my final question, Devin, which is gonna be sort of like a transition into what we're talking about today, is how not how, what is your relationship with Year of the Black Rainbow?
SPEAKER_01You know, Year of the Black Rainbow is one of those albums that you know it it's the black sheep of the discography. You know, people either love it, but more often than not, you hear of people hating it. And, you know, whatever the reasoning may be, if for a while I was in the camp of like, oh, this might be my least favorite Koheed record, which you know, if you're gonna rank them at some point, you're gonna have the least favorite. And I am not always a full album listener, so just over time hearing some of the songs on Shuffle, it's like, oh, this is really good. Oh, this is really good, and then oh, you know, so on and so forth. I I said it about every song on the album. So I listened to it again, cover to cover, knowing that I actually do like the songs, and was like, wow, this is a phenomenal record. Then I got the book. And after the after reading the novel, it's yeah, I mean, I I I rate this record uh higher. If I were to listen to a Koved record, I would put on Europe for the Black Rainbow before I put on Second Stage. Wow. It's just I I feel like there's there's something about this record that feels like it it needs to like push past you know this breaking point, and then right when you think it's about to with record ends, and I think that's like so uh powerful. They really they nailed it, and then the bonus tracks too are ridiculous. How are you gonna have songs that don't make it on the album be better than most other songs out there? It's it's it's underrated for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. I I ride hard for The Lost Shepherd. I love that song. I don't know if we'll cover it on here or not, but yes.
SPEAKER_05I love Hush myself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Hush is awesome too. But like this album is to me very cinematic, and I think Claudio has even like mentioned that that that that that was the intention for this record that to be kind of a more epic cinematic feel. And uh just some before we get into the song, some basic year of the black rainbow stats, it was released on April 13th, 2010. It was produced by Atticus Ross and Joe Baresi. This was a big year for Atticus. I think it was the Social Network year, the year he won the Oscar, so that's exciting. This song was not released as a single, even though it's very pop-forward and it might be one of the poppiest songs on the album. And it's track eight on the album. And you guys could tell me if this is true or not, or if if it rings true to you, but it feels like the storyline it goes sequentially with it it works well after World of Lions, like they work well as one leading into the other.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I would certainly agree with that. World of Lines and Made Out of Nothing feel like kind of like World of Lines feels like the closing of one part of the book and then made out of nothing is the opening to the next part. I mean, uh also on the the record, it's broken when you on the vinyl, it's broken down into different different sides, and side B is Far, the Shattered Symphony, and World of Lines, which sonically all those flow really well together, but side C is Made Out of Nothing and Pearl of the Starge, which I think are also make a nice little duology together. But I agree with everything you say about it being very pop-forward, but it's also just like it's very fat, like it's got a lot of weight, it's got a lot of heft to it, and it's got a lot of groove, too. It it makes it great for repeat listens.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's the first album, the only album that Chris Penny actually plays on, the different drumming, and then it's Mike Todd's final album with the band, and yeah, it has a has a definitive feel to it. What do you think, Devin? How do you feel about all that?
SPEAKER_01I I agree. I mean, honestly, Year of the Black Rainbow is like the best album for pre-choruses. Like, they nailed the lyricism and the build in every single song, and made out of nothing is like the peak of that, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00Hell yeah. Made out of nothing. All the parts are really catchy. We'll get into that. Before I do that, I have a couple of pieces from reviews and then a couple of quotes. I'll go through the reviews first. This one's from Bloody Disgusting. It says, quote, the album plays out a lot like a movie with a lot of ups and downs, but rightfully so, it is a concept that is built around a lot of terrible things happening. Made out of nothing, all that I am, and Pearl of the Stars is definitely a down part of the album. End quote. And then from Rock Eyes with a Z dot com, quote, Made Out of Nothing, All That I Am is definitely single material, a great combination of heavy and yet catchy, with enough textures and interesting things going on to keep it from being too obvious. End quote. And so those are from reviews. I have a couple of quotes from Claudio now about this.
SPEAKER_05This is from Special Cameo by Apollo years before he was born.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you got two big dogs and they bark at things and it resonates in the whole house. Anyway, I have two quotes from Claudio here. The first one is from an interview he did with loudersound.com. And he says, even with the songs that are a little bit more accessible, we still get pinned as bizarre and wrong. I think what we do is to create a catalog of songs that are different. Having songs like The Willing Well sitting next to Made Out of Nothing is cool. I think it certainly creates peaks and valleys. They're on different records, but in terms of catalog, you can think about it and listen to it as the concept. End quote. And then from the YouTube track by tracks, Claudio had this to say about the song. I mean, coming from nothing. End quote.
SPEAKER_05So those are some quotes. I liked the second reviewer more than the first one, but I also I I don't know if the first one was was necessarily written with negative intent there to call it a low. It sounds like maybe they're echoing more like what Claudio said, like the peaks and valleys. Uh right.
SPEAKER_00I I think it was thematically, not like these songs suck.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. No, but but I I agree. This is a it's it's a great song, it's so dynamic. There's so many different layers to it. And just before we we jumped on, of course, I was jamming out to it, and uh I was naughty. I did not do my homework, I didn't listen to the song before we we came in, really. And uh I didn't, although I've read the book a lot of times, I did not read the chapter directly before. So when we get to the lore section, I'm gonna lean on you a little bit to guide us through that. But it just so much to love about this song and the uh the feel of it, and it really does feel like the culmination of a lot of emotional arcs leading up to this point, not just in Claudio and the band's personal life, but in the characters of Leonard and Pearl and even Koheed and Cambria kind of coming to terms with their own agency.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I, you know, go going back to what Claudio said, there's there's something on every Kohid record that I think anybody could find and appreciate. Like their discography is not just one sound. You have songs like Evagria Made Out of Nothing, The Willing Wells, Subtraction, The Flood. Like, these are vastly different songs that kind of go across all these different genres, and that's the beauty of Kohi. So I I I think that that's cool that he was able to recognize it and kind of capitalize on that idea, and especially now with the Vaxxis arc. I mean, Vaxxus 2, if you if you compare that to second stage, I mean you're quite a different style, quite a different feel.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, it's a different feel, but like it's the same band, and but not every band can pull that off, right? Like to me, to me, you can put Devil in Jersey City up against the Liars Club, and and they're the same band, right? But just two different, very different points in their careers, but like they they pull off, they pull off both styles, you know, equally well. But before we get into these chapters in this particular lore, uh, we have our Zach's rapid recap segment, which is where Zach is going to set the stage for how we got to where we are now. How what what leads into where we are?
SPEAKER_05So, where we last left off, we were talking about the song World of Lines. Now, I I want to quickly mention that the chapter directly before the chapter that is called Made Out of Nothing is actually called Pearl of the Stars. And that is a very well-written but psychologically disturbing chapter, which we'll go over next week when we talk about the song. But I think that's another example of how these songs are sometimes placed out of chronological order. The story, like we talked about with the Shattered Symphony taking place much later. But Made Out of Nothing pretty much directly follows the events, I would say, of World of Lions, in that Koheat and Cambria were put on Ryan's radar in a very big way. He sent, well, first of all, he hired a lot of spies to discover who they were and where they came from. And he sent Mayo to Leonard's house, first actually, to kidnap Pearl and hold her as a hostage, but then he sent Mayo to Leonard's residence essentially to reveal to Leonard that they knew what he was up to, the jig is up, and that he had his wife. And the demand, the ransom for returning her, was to deliver both Koheed and Cambria alive and unharmed to Wilhelm Ryan, but also to create this devastating virus called the Mod Star Virus, which Leonard discovered would have the potential to end all life as we know it on Heaven's Fence. So Leonard was left this with this really tragic moral dilemma that's kind of the crux of the story, which is would I craft this could I potentially engineer the destruction of everything that exists to save the person that I love? It's a it's a tough decision because the decision to use the Monstar virus on Ryan's part is not guaranteed, or at least it that's what Mao makes him believe. But so there's a chance he could use this virus if if indeed Leonard was to make it. Uh but if he doesn't, then Pearl would certainly die in probably a very horrible and painful way. So that's kind of where we're left off with is Leonard in the state of shock and grief and picking up the pieces and and sort of unsure of where to go next.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, you could make me this pizza and I might eat it. I might not.
SPEAKER_05Let's be real, you're gonna eat the pizza, Joel.
SPEAKER_00That's what I that's what that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_05There's a 0% chance if I make you a pizza that you're not eating it. This is a a core truth of Joel.
SPEAKER_00But that's what I mean. You may make this virus for uh for me, Leonard, and you know, we might use it. We we we might not.
SPEAKER_05But if you don't, your wife's definitely dead. Tough break.
SPEAKER_00Tough break indeed. Well, so that is a good starting point for where we are. Zach and I discussed this a little bit before, Devin. I don't know if you agree with this or not, but we decided or came to the conclusion that for Made Out of Nothing, the chapters involved are actually chapters 13, 14, and 15. And I think they all kind of follow the same overarching plot between the three of them. The first, the first of those chapters, chapter 13, made out of nothing, is basically, as Zach said, Pearl was abducted. And in this chapter, Leonard and Koheed and Cambria and Inferno are all sort of debating about what they should do next, what action to take. Koheed wants to blast them all away, kind of hulk smash them, and Leonard knows that that's not possible. And at the end of this chapter, he has a private conversation with Cambria that appears to kind of direct his mind towards a solution. And that's that's that chapter. Chapter 14 picks up pretty much from where that left off. Chapter 14 is called Everything You Love. Leonard talks to Inferno and basically tells Inferno that he needs to go report to the Gray Old Arbor and wait. Inferno doesn't like this idea because they're always dispatched as a unit, all three of them together. And before he goes, Inferno talks to Koheed and Cambria, who are also very surprised and taken aback and confused by Leonard telling Inferno to do this. Koheed in particular thinks it's wrong. Cambria believes that we need to trust Professor Hohenberger. And after Inferno leaves, Coheed and Cambria are alone and continue to sort of debate it, and they have this real hot makeout session. And in the the process of that, Cambria basically tells Koheed that he needs to listen. And Koheed tells Cambria that if anyone tries to hurt her, no matter who it is, Leonard or whomever, he's gonna kill him, basically. And watching all this from afar, I don't know if he's like in his in his lab peeping through the the window or what, but Leonard's there watching this, and he he reflects on his first love, a woman, presumably, named Camille, and he calls Kohe and Cambria in, he tells him to break up their makeout sesh, come into the lab, and when he gets them in there, he says the word Camille, which we as the readers learn is his fail-safe. It's basically a safe word, and as soon as he says it, it basically shuts down Kohid and Cambria. It it it collapses them, and their memories have been turned off, making them basically totally pliable to whatever instructions Hohenberger decides to give them. And Inferno, we also learned, does not have this. He was the first one made, and Professor Hohenberger Leonard did not think about doing that for uh Inferno. And then the last chapter for this particular segment we have is chapter 15, which is titled While You Were Sleeping. And in this chapter, Mayo returns to Leonard's place to pick up the virus and to pick up Koheed and Cambria. And while he's there, Leonard basically tells him what he did, how he did create the virus. That's true, it's done, but the way he's delivering it to Mayo is via, I guess it's in the blood of Koheed and Cambria separately. It's not something that either one of them can produce or can can do on their own. It it is they have to be combined together somehow. And Mayo is not happy about this. Leonard thinks that Ryan is is actually gonna think it's impressive or gonna think it's it's a little wrinkle in in the assignment, basically. And then, you know, Mayo, Mayo takes them back, and Leonard returns to the lab. And when he's there in the lab, we find out that he has uh like a safe room or like a secret room which houses these tubs, these giant pods. I don't know what what they're called in the the book, but it's it's basically vats. There you go. Where the iRobots were created. And it is revealed there that there's another, a new iRobot, which we learn is called Josephine. And that's all we sort of hear about that. And the last part of this chapter is Leonard S. Sitting down making a video of himself explaining apparently what he has done, making this virus and potentially destroying all of humanity. Uh, it's a bit of like a suicide note or something like that, perhaps. Um, and that's that's I think where we left off. You guys tell me if I got that right or if I missed anything or if there's any embellishment that you want to go into. Any thoughts you have?
SPEAKER_05I think that's a very great and pretty comprehensive recap of of those three chapters. It's a lot to dive into in one song, and I think they all kind of thematically they I mean, the reason we chose these three chapters to go with this song is because they all feel like they kind of fit the theme of of kind of coming to terms with your decisions, having to make these hard choices and you know forging your own path and identity through them. There's one scene in the first chapter, chapter 13, made out of nothing, toward the end of it that I I wanted to touch on because it takes place in the greenhouse, which was Pearl's Pearl's greenhouse, where she did all of her botanical and uh scientific experiments. But there's a I think kind of a symbolic visual scene where there's a a fight between a bird who made his way into the greenhouse and the dragonfly, the syringe that Pearl had crafted. Now, if we recall back in the earliest chapters of the book, Pearl grafted this dragonfly with a stinger. And when Leonard asked Pearl why he would she would do such a thing, she basically said, Why not? You know, it's because I can. And, you know, in the name of science is is is what she was going for. She does a lot of she did a lot of genetic work. But this dragonfly has the stinger now, it's a defense mechanism. And normally a dragonfly would be prey to a bird. A bird could eat most insects it would come across, but this dragonfly is not defenseless, it uh stings the bird before the bird can eat it, and the bird tries to it kind of swoops around and it tries to come out and attack it, and then it falls dead right out of the sky. And that's kind of Leonard's light bulb moment where he realizes how he can utilize the the virus and deliver it in a way that's unconventional, but use that as a as a fail safe. So that's definitely you know tying back into the origin of the dragonfly, which is an important element of this entire story that will come back very into play much heavily in later albums, specifically in second stage, but also mild spoiler alert in the Good Apollo duology. And I also just thought it was important to mention the bird because the bird is a is a cool piece of imagery from the album art. It was on the single for The Broken, but it's also in the lighter notes for the vinyl, the CD, and the uh deluxe edition of the album. It's this black bird. At least I'm pretty sure that's the bird that they're that they're talking about. I feel like there's I I said I feel like it's symbolic. I don't know exactly what it's symbolic of. I don't know what the bird is supposed to symbolize, but I feel like the dragonfly is supposed to be, you know, Leonard and the KBI and and the the forces of good, you know, with their secret weapon. But that's uh I just thought that was important to touch on.
SPEAKER_01Well, I kind of see uh the the entrance of Leonard and the bird into the greenhouse uh without Pearl present, right? Like this is his first time going into that greenhouse without her. That's crossing a boundary that she had established. That is her workspace. And the bird, you know, is not supposed to be there crossing the boundary, the physical boundary. So I kind of see them as linked, where the bird gets stung by the Syringa and dies. Leonard has this realization to create the virus in both Koheed and Cambria, and that is what causes his his demise. So, like that moment is basically, you know, and and birds represent, you know, freedom, you know, escaping, flight, and all those things get taken down by something that wasn't supposed to happen.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_01The Syringa was not supposed to exist. Pearl, Pearl created this of her own accord. So I think that's that scene is like really pivotal. And then I think at the end of at the end of the chapter, like Cambria starting to understand love a little bit, is you know, very reminiscent of the All Mother when she starts to learn Cyrus Amory, and you know, with with Cambria, we get to obviously see that play out a little bit more with Koheed, and then my favorite part of the book, Camille. I mean, he just you know, he's he's doing all this for Pearl, but he's still thinking about Camille. Uh you dog, Leonard, you dog. Um great legs. But I I think it's uh it's a really interesting, you know, commentary that love is such a driving force behind all of this destruction. We also learn how the Grail Arbor lands in Inferno's care, and that's like a really cool piece of deep trivia. Yeah, and I really like the uh the idea that Leonard tells Mayo and he takes control of the situation, says, You bring your bioscanner guy, because you won't trust my guy if I have him do it, you won't trust my equipment if I do it. And Mayo's like, Alright, fair enough. And then he he drops that it's not the blood, it's not that easy. You can't just do things with their body, you have to like deeply combine them in a way that you know eventually figure it out. But like it's it's damn near, yeah. So he's just he's just like he takes all of the power in in that situation, and it's such a good duality from the previous chapter, which is Pearl's torture, and she loses all of her power. Unfortunately, it's it's a duality that exists ultimately in the negative for both of them, but the most beautiful part of it, in my opinion, is Josephine being named after Joseph.
SPEAKER_05Yes, I love that so much. Devin, I love your your analysis of that. It's it's fun to talk about the lore with each other, but it's so much it's so refreshing to get a different person's perspective on it, especially someone who is someone who knows what they're talking about, yeah. So who is as deeply inspired by by by the lore, but also you know, is intelligent and is able to pick out symbolism and things like that too. My my brain has been so racked recently. I shared with you before we started this podcast, but I just started going back to college. I'm in my 30s now, better late than never, right? And I'm I'm going for a liberal studies degree and I'm doing all this deep analysis of lots of different texts right now. So my brain has been so full of extrapolating, you know, themes and and messages from all these different things. And I think that it was just tough for me to pull that out of this this book particular because I've been reading this book since I was, you know, uh, how old was I when this came out? 16 or something like that. And I've read it probably 15 or 20 times. But just it all it's always so much fun to hear a different person's perspective on it. And uh yeah, I thank you for sharing your your your thoughts on that.
SPEAKER_01Well, I have I have a question for you guys. Uh okay, go for it. Would you destroy the universe for the person you love the most?
SPEAKER_05That's a tough one.
SPEAKER_00That essentially is is the the question of the book, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's the that's the whole crux of of the universe. I don't know, man. Because it's like even if I even if I killed myself, then the universe would probably still get destroyed. You know, they they'd find out a way to do it. I would I don't know. I I don't I don't think there is, you know, an answer to that one. It's uh it's it's it's a very strong conundrum. And obviously, I I feel like Leonard, of course, is a great character because he's he's like a genius and he's able to problem solve and figure his way out of this one, at least to buy him some more time. Unfortunately, it doesn't, you know, spoiler alert, really work out too well for either of them, but he does, he is able, he's able to at least stop the immediate destruction of the universe. I gotta phrase that carefully. So it's it's tough too because you know, when we look at the context of how things end up, and I don't really want to spoil it too much because you know, Joel has not read the the comics past where we're at right now, but there's this real lingering question was you know, was it worth it in the end? I I I don't know. I mean, I think the answer is yes. I I think as we as we as as we dive into the the lore in the the coming chapters of the Amory Wars, once we get to No World for tomorrow in uh 2038 or whenever whatever year that is, then um maybe we can reanalyze that. But it's it's a tough one. Joel, would you would you kill your wife to save the universe or vice versa?
SPEAKER_00So like that that's the that's the real question. I think Devin posed it as would you save your your love as opposed to destroying the universe? Maybe he didn't, but that's how I interpreted it. But really, like it's the other way around, right? Like, would you basically sentence your loved one to death in order to save the universe? But I think Zach, you hit on it like I think you have to you have to try to think outside the box and you have to go with the the universe instead of your love because in this situation the universe is probably fucked anyway, right? Like if this guy is trying to make this virus and trying to do it, if you don't do it for him, he's gonna find some way to do it, or he's just gonna go on some sort of death rampage. So try to salvage the time with your wife or with your loved one, whomever it is, and you know, figure out an escape plan from there. Don't just you know auto go like okay, you know, fuck it, destroy the universe. That's that's my thought on it. And I uh yeah, I I don't know, man. It's it's it is it's an interesting question because it that does sort of feel like the whole theme or the whole like major story of this book. And just so so we all know, we can, we did already do the episode for this shattered symphony, which is the death of Leonard Hohenberger. So spoiler alert. Uh if you're if you're listening to these these in order, you've already heard that. If you're listening to it in whatever you consider to be the actual lore order, you haven't got there yet. Sorry for that spoiler alert. But if you'd like to recap it, we did go over this in the Shattered Symphony, what happens to Leonard after the events of this these particular chapters.
SPEAKER_05If you if you skip that chapter, if you're uh if you're one of the only people who is a listening to this podcast but has not read this book or is familiar with the story, and you chose to skip the Shattered Symphony because of our spoiler warning, I encourage you to at least listen to the next two songs, listen to the next two episodes before you go back to then just to preserve that. But yeah, I mean, we've talked about it, it's out there. He goes, Claudio goes all over the place chronologically with with these songs and these albums. So we couldn't talk about that song without really talking about what it's about. It is interesting when when we look at the crux of this story, though, and that question that you just asked us, Devin, which is the question of the book. Claudio wrote this, you know, that at a time when he was he was either recently married or he he got married like I want to say a year or two before. So, you know, this question is on his mind. Do you do you think what do you think his answer was gonna be?
SPEAKER_01I think I think we got it. I think we got it in Year of the Black Rainbow. I think he's destroying the universe.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, we we got it, yeah. We got it in all the all the songs, didn't we?
SPEAKER_01That's I I will say though, it's uh it's really interesting that to to pose this question with the background knowledge that the Gonsgrad has a prophecy of the end of days. You know, it's so is is you know, technically the creation of Koheed and Cambria sets that prophecy into motion.
SPEAKER_05It's it is so interesting, and that's a huge element of the Amory Wars that we have not really spoken about yet, because to my knowledge, I I I'd have to do a word search through the PDF, I think, but I don't actually think the Gonsgrad is mentioned in the You're the Black Rainbow novel, is it, Devin, to your memory?
SPEAKER_00It it is early on.
SPEAKER_05It is okay. Briefly, though, I right? I mean, they don't they don't quote any like real passages besides maybe the riddle.
SPEAKER_00I think I think I think that's it, but Devin would probably know better than I would.
SPEAKER_01He's searching. I am I am doing a search right now. I have the PDF loaded up.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's just it's it's just so interesting because that is a huge element that really gets fleshed out. It's you know it's introduced in second stage, yeah, and it gets really fleshed out in keeping secrets in good Apollo, but it's barely touched on in this book, and being the foundation of the Amory Warriors universe and and having this whole conundrum be about the end of days. Yeah, that it that is interesting to keep that context in there, but it just makes it a cumulative story with more stuff to build on to it in later chapters, I guess.
SPEAKER_00So that's the story. We'll continue to talk about the story as we get into the actual music part, and this is this is where we are now. The music for this song is a different feel than World of Lines. It's almost like the polar opposite. World of Lines is very fast and driving, and then this song it's very halftime and kind of, you know, for lack of a better word, like chugging along. The the song starts off with the intro. It's got this open hi-hat halftime feel. The bass is kind of driving the rhythm, and the guitars kind of have this, you know, kind of ring out lead. It's a very it it draws it drew draws me in. I don't know how you guys feel, but it's it's a cool intro. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and the and the opening rhythm guitar is so I called it fat. It's it's hefty, it's chunky, it's it's just got so much like jing gun jing gun ching, and it's so simple. Like on guitar, this is definitely one of the easier songs to play on this record, but that by no means makes it a worse song or or makes it lesser. I I think there's so many different cool sonic dynamics and that are introduced right from the get-go that make for really interesting interplay with the instruments.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, before I I was, you know, saying that you're the black rainbow was like the pre-chorus album. The this is the song. I mean, the chorus is as well. It's one of the best in the entire discography. There's uh there's like hits on the bell of the cymbal that really keep it light too. It's such a you know, and Kohe does this so well, such like a poppy song for one of like the darkest parts of the concept. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_05They they they love that dichotomy.
SPEAKER_00So let's dive into the words here. I actually didn't have the pre-chorus sort of uh shaped out, so we'll have to point that out when it gets here, but let's start with with verse one, and I think it bleeds into the pre-chorus, so uh we'll talk about both. But we'll start with the lyrics here. Never mind all the lines I'm coming. There is no better part of me, you'll see. The darkest light, the blind I'll be. I accept that you chose to forget the horrid thing you made of me, my dear. It is alright.
SPEAKER_03It is so much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, it talks about jokes, which is so funny because we just we just talked about those.
SPEAKER_00So the the precourse then is the laughing feels so good, but the world misunderstood all I said. There was no joke and what I meant. So, yeah, those are the lyrics. You guys have any thoughts on those?
SPEAKER_05Devin, you want to go? You've got some you've had the best insight, I feel like, this podcast so far.
SPEAKER_01I I disagree, but I I really the play of like the laughing feels so good, but I was just misunderstood in what I was saying. There was actually no joke, is like such a descent into madness, and you know, separate from the concept, that feeling of being misunderstood, and sometimes you just like laugh to yourself is like incredibly relatable, and it launches into the chorus, and and that in itself is like thick. Like you've been saying, there's there it's there's weight to this song.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, the the concept of not being taken seriously, it ties pretty much directly into the last song too, uh World of Lines, which was you know, Claudio kind of hammered that theme home with feeling like feeling misunderstood. And it's interesting. I mean, these two those two songs next to each other on the album, they continue that thread there. I just thought that was interest worth pointing out.
SPEAKER_00Thematically, are we thinking that this verse, these words are from the perspective or basically describing Leonard's situation?
SPEAKER_05Leonard, yes, lore-wise, and of course Claudio Sanchez uh in real life, too. I I feel like this is a very personal song straight from his heart. But yeah, I think when when we translate it to the lore, I would I would identify these as coming from Leonard. You could probably make an argument that maybe it came from Ryan, but Ryan's not really present too much in these in these particular chapters, just kind of in the background. What do you think, Devin?
SPEAKER_01I think especially when you get to the bridge where it's I failed you, I failed, there's no understanding in miracles. Yeah. When the worst, it always comes true. I'm the nothing you have saved. Like that is to me, Pearl. Um, Leonard's screaming to Pearl that he's he's messed up, he's really messed up, but it was for a good intention, and it but it you he can't go back. He needs to carry this to the end.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. I think that's that's pretty accurate. Joel, I know Joel wants to wants to rewind back to the chorus in the second verse.
SPEAKER_00Jumping ahead here. But let's let's go back. Uh now the chorus musically well the whole song pretty much vibes on this halftime feel. There's the the the heavy chugging sort of in the the chorus, and the last third of the verse, kind of the pre-chorus, I guess, the guitar, sort of the lead enters into the chorus. There's like this nice 16th note drum fill that goes into the chorus. The lyrics of the chorus are as follows. So, mom, please come shelter me.
SPEAKER_05You know, it it would work thematically almost, Joel. That because that if you fed that, like if Chat GPT said that was the the Koheed line, I would absolutely believe it because that that's very much tied into the word mom gets said a lot in Koheed songs. But no, you're wrong. Please tell us the actual lyric.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Someone, please come shelter me from all that I am, never again will I believe the same old story. Someone, please come shelter me from all that I am, never again will I believe the same old story. Uh it's got the halftime feel, the beat kind of shifts to the the hits from two and four to just all four beats for the first part of the song, and then it switches to the in the all that I am part to more of the standard halftime feel uh fill fee standard halftime feel, and it has this sort of uh simple little drum fill before the repeat. And from the drumming perspective, and Devin can chime in on this too, uh this is a very, very normal Chris Penny song. I think he really just kind of played it straight. He still does a lot of the kind of spice stuff that I like that he does in these songs, little callback pieces or little little things that he adds. But um, it's a pretty much I mean pretty straight rock song.
SPEAKER_01It feels like a breath of fresh air on this record because there's so many moments where it's all over the place. And it's really impressive drumming, but sometimes you just need that that palette cleanser and You're absolutely right. He plays it straightforward, but it it serves the song so well.
SPEAKER_00Totally. And one thing w we were talking about the song and the heaviness of it or the the darkness of it. And I think Chris Penny's great. I actually like the percussion not the percussion, sorry, the production on this record. But the thing that I was thinking about while listening to this song today was how cool would it be if the drums had the bat sounding production of the Vaxis records basically that Josh has now, like the really deep toms and the the big thick booming drums. I think that would that would have served this song in particular really well.
SPEAKER_01I want to hear it live again. Yes, the the little like harmonies, if you will, that Claudio throws on the end, or it's not even harmonies, just like a flare that he throws uh on on the ending portion of the song is unmatched. It's like he does it in number city as well. When he does the number counting, there's like some some flare that he adds that isn't on the record, and it's like, oh my gosh, please play it live more. Please record it studio, it's so good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. Claudio's the flare master.
SPEAKER_05I want to point out uh a cool part in this. We're we're on the second chorus now, or second verse now, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh, we're getting into it, yeah.
SPEAKER_05You're getting into it. I I do you do you want to set up the second verse? But there's a there's a specific part in there I want to point out that I think is cool and that I think we'll all enjoy.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So after the first chorus, there's what I described as kind of a pre-verse or like a post-chorus. It's got that halftime feel. There's a little uh cool hi-hat splice thing that Chris Penny does, and then it gets back into the verse, standard verse structure. And the the lyrics in the verse are I've given up on all I love for an honest moment of clarity. I need to feel all right. Please let me breathe. In life, I'm made out of nothing to cleanse this useless identity. Will you hear all the world and it's wise? Just wait. Will the later half be as good? If I only if only I misunderstood, I weigh all this judgment, I've been blamed.
SPEAKER_05So there's a really cool like synth line that comes in in the second verse. It's that and when you watch the You're the Black Rainbow making of documentary, it's the uh cool breakdown part where Claudio is rapping about being the hamburglar stealing all your motherfucking cheeseburgers. And I can't uh I can't unhear that every time I hear that that synth line. Devin, thoughts?
SPEAKER_01No thoughts. That was perfect.
SPEAKER_02Stealing I also like that he messes it up too.
SPEAKER_06At first he says, I'm the cheeseburglar, stealing all your motherfucking hamburgers.
SPEAKER_05Then he corrects it to be on the hamburger burglar the second time.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, it's perfect perfect little Pete Kohe.
SPEAKER_05I there's I I remember just fragments like tears in the rain.
SPEAKER_06Uh I remember uh someone's signature on the cobalt and calcium forums.
SPEAKER_05I don't remember who it was, but if you're listening, shout us out. It was the their signature on every comment they posted was I'm the hamburger burglar stealing all your motherfucking cheeseburgers.
SPEAKER_00That's um classic Kohe.
SPEAKER_05Classic goofy goofy Claudio.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. So after that verse, we have the second chorus, and I believe the second chorus is pretty much the same as the first chorus, and then it leads into the bridge, which Devin talked about a little bit already. The the vocals in the chorus, in particular, bleed into the bridge, and the bridge has kind of this soaring feel with the halftime. The lyrics are I failed you, I fail, there's no understanding in miracles, when the worst it always comes true. I am the nothing you have saved.
SPEAKER_04He's gone, ladies and gentlemen. Sorry.
SPEAKER_01Um I just I just saw something pop up. I was like, oh, I gotta read that really quick. Um no, it's um I mean this is kind of the the the turning point in the song because after this you I mean you get another chorus, but I don't wanna I don't want to steal the outro from you, but it's that's where like, oh man, everything comes to a head. You can steal it.
SPEAKER_06It's very it's very entertaining for me. I like watching Joel get derailed.
SPEAKER_00No, we're we're basically there. I one thing I wanted to point out, just a little thing, a per percussive thing. When the worst it always comes true, it kind of has this little stalled drum part where it just goes bop bop and the Claudio goes ha ha or something, and it's just like together with the snare. I I always really like that part. It always just like sticks out to me as a as a fun as a fun piece. This bridge does not have a guitar solo, it's it's it's vocals, it's a melody, and it it continues the song's themes, and then it goes into the the last chorus. And the last chorus is basically the same except for after you go through the the standard chorus structure, it has the outro. And the outro, I believe, is is very similar in music, but the the melody changes and it's got some new lyrics. And the lyrics for the outro are it eats us like cancer, we're hoping for something, maybe an answer with all that you've done for me, made out of nothing. It eats us like camps cancer, we're hoping for something, maybe an answer with all that you've done for me, made out of nothing, made out of nothing, etc. etc. etc. And then the song ends, and the the guitar sort of fade the lead kind of fades out at the end of the song after the the song proper has has stopped, but you still hear this lingering um as it as it fades out. And that's that, ladies and gentlemen, is the end of Made Out of Nothing. And let's hear let's hear about the outro, Devin. I want to hear I want to hear your thoughts.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, it's just uh it eats us like cancer, a calling for something, maybe an answer with all that you've done for me. That is visceral imagery. That's not like a light, light-hearted lyric. That is Oh damn, man.
SPEAKER_05I've always wondered if that was like a Nirvana reference uh to Heart Shape Box. I wish I could eat your cancer win. It it might not be, but obviously I know they're fans of Nirvana because they covered uh Drain You uh at that that one tour 10 years ago. But it always makes me think of that song when I hear that. But you're right, it's it's super visual vis visceral lyrics and just peak uh Claudio visual storytelling.
SPEAKER_00It's it is like there's an air of desperation to the lyrics and to the the the delivery of of the lyrics and sort of just like it eats us like cancer, we're hoping for something like like what's going on? What what what what can we do about this? Like how how did we get here to this situation? And then it's like this this clarification, and I don't know if it's clarification, but like this moment of like we're made out of nothing, like this is this is this is it, you know.
SPEAKER_05An honest moment of clarity, yeah. We're we're made out of nothing. We're when that particular line and the title made out of nothing, it it's just because this has been on my mind this week, but uh one of the concepts we're exploring in one of my classes is uh the concepts of agency versus structure, agency being you know, b your own choices, the the the decisions you make to put yourself into positions and and structure being the unmovable forces of your environment, the things that you can't control, the hand that you're dealt. And the argument for you know, what defines a person's successes or failures is it is it their agency or or are they hampered by their structure? But this feels like a clear call to the the agency side of it. We're you know, we're made out of nothing. We we craft our own paths, we all come from the same place, and we're the masters of our own destiny here. We have the power to to choose. And that really is kind of, I think, Leonard coming to his epiphany in this song of you know, finding that way to get his wife back, potentially save the world, and uh you know, maybe do it all without losing his moral compass.
SPEAKER_00It really is a profound and deep lyric, just that made out of nothing. Repeated, repeated, repeated, made out of nothing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's you know, exactly as you said, it's uh it represents a moment for Leonard when he's trying to craft this idea versus when Mayo comes back, he's a different person.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's a transformative moment for him.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. For sure, for sure. So I I think I think we did it, guys. I think that's made out of nothing. All that I am. Yeah, and uh we do like to do a little uh file this away for later. I didn't have anything in particular that was like calling out to me. The obvious one is like Josephine, you know, that's that's gotta be something. I don't know exactly what that what that something is.
SPEAKER_06That's something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know, I know Josephine is referenced in a future song, so that's that's gotta be something.
SPEAKER_06Um Josephine's no good, terrible, horrible, very bad day. This is what it is. But yeah, that's something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um exactly did you have any others?
SPEAKER_05We did we tying into that, yes, I have another one, but but tying into that, um, I just wanted to mention again what what Devin said earlier, which is it's really beautiful that Josephine is named after Joseph, because it really is kind of Leonard's second chance. Like I think he thought the KBI was a second chance at first, but I really do see Josephine and the legacy that he that they leave behind as being their second chance, not for them to be parents, but for Coheen and Cambria to be parents. And I think that's really beautiful. So yeah, Josephine's a definite file that away for later. If anyone is not familiar with that, um I should come with a trigger warning. But the the other big file that's away for later, I think, is uh is the dragonfly. Uh we we mentioned it, but that's a really key element to it's it's a key vessel for things in the story. It will come back into play very heavily in uh the coming records. It's obviously the imagery is all over the second stage album, but uh it's uh and and I I love that we get to see the origin of it here. I think that's really neat.
SPEAKER_01Heck yeah, and Josephine gets her moment in the sun for sure, eventually. She does, yeah.
SPEAKER_05She she she she definitely does. I love that uh I love I love that we actually do get to have you know she has that purpose defined for her later on. What was I just gonna say? It was on the tip of my tongue uh file this away for later. Oh yeah, Camille, follow that away for later. Blonde hair, great legs. Uh that's gonna come back into play.
SPEAKER_00Okay. All right, well, uh that I think pretty much wraps it up. Uh we wanna again thank you to Devin for coming on the podcast with us breaking down this song. It is refreshing to hear other voices and to hear other opinions and thoughts on these songs, especially someone who knows it as deeply as you do, Devin. And yeah, thank you for coming on and thank you for having us on yours. Uh, where can people find you on the internet? Where where's your podcast? What what are you up to?
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, thank you guys so much for having me. First off, I appreciate it. And I love I love this song. Aside from Hush, I think this is my favorite song on the record. So it's awesome to talk about with you guys. Um you can find Goddardam Gazette on the big four socials, Blue Sky, X, Instagram, Facebook. We also have a Discord server. It is all linked in our link tree in all of our social social media bios and the podcast, Goddard Gazette exists wherever you get your podcasts. Our latest episode features Zach and Joel. So if you want another Kohe Chronicles Goddardn Gazette collab, definitely check that out.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. And I would be remiss if I didn't say that Zach as a musician also has new music out available now, streaming on all platforms. Zach's looking at me like, no, it's not, because it's not actually today.
SPEAKER_05No, it is well Well, it it will be uh by the time this comes out. It'll probably be out for a month by the time this comes out. Uh but yeah, we uh we just released slash are releasing a new song called Kids by our band Zach Venny and Friends, and it will be on all the uh the streaming services and Bandcamp too. If you want to buy it directly and support us and buy us, I mean me. And Joel, he'll he'll he'll get some royalties from it. Check it out. It's not I I described it a little bit before, it's not super Kohi like, it's much more kind of poppy, you know, I hate describing my own music. It's a fun, it's a it's an it's a lighthearted, poppy, nostalgic alternative rock song. It's kind of G Me World. Yeah, we'll leave it at that. If you if you like that, then you should you should go check it out. Kids, Zach Fenny and Friends. Great. That was a great job of promoting my own music. Thanks, Joel.
SPEAKER_00No problem. Sprung that on you. And uh for us, you can follow us on Instagram. We're at the Kohee Chronicles, and our next episode will drop in two weeks, and it's uh going backwards a little bit. Zach mentioned this earlier, but the next is gonna be Pearl of the Stars. So check that out in two weeks. Uh and I guess that's it. Any any last words, guys?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh, you know, as you're gonna be talking about Pearl of the Stars and some imprisonment, uh, Zach, because you because you collect cassettes, a rarity, a true rarity. I'm I'm still looking for one myself. There is a prison authenticated cassette for Good Apollo on Burning Star 4, volume one from Fear Through the Eyes of Madness. It has no screws, it is a screwless cassette tape, uh, and it exists so people that are incarcerated can listen to music on their cassette players. So that's incredible.
SPEAKER_06I would feel awful taking that from them, though. Listen, listen.
SPEAKER_01If one makes it out, if one makes it out and it's you know circulating, it's fair game. It's fair game.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's totally I didn't know that existed. That's incredible.
SPEAKER_00Quite well, guys.
SPEAKER_06That's that's oh man, you don't know what you just did to me, Devin.
SPEAKER_00Run down the rabbit hole of this now. That's wild. All right, but yeah, that'll wrap it up, guys. Thank you. Check us out, follow us on socials, follow God or damn gazette on socials, and like and subscribe to both of our podcasts, and uh, I'm sure we'll do more in the future. Uh, thank you everyone for listening.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, everybody. Bye. Bye, thank you guys.